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tatty
19-11-2011, 04:36 AM
Ran a search but couldn't really find much info for the d21/td27.

So I'm quite tired of a gutless auto box, what's the go with swapping to the manual and if there is a right up somewhere?
Being for the Terrano/Pathfinder, can I use d21 gear?

Dion
19-11-2011, 09:02 AM
No write up.

Use a TD27 D21 manual transmission.

It's not too difficult.

tatty
20-11-2011, 09:40 AM
That's what I thought. Can I use a vg30 one as well?

What about transfer case? No hassles?

Dion
20-11-2011, 10:33 AM
That's what I thought. Can I use a vg30 one as well?


No, it's different. Different bellhousing and different output shaft spline count.


What about transfer case? No hassles?

It's slightly different, the automatic one doesn't have a little oil gutter under the input shaft but that isn't an issue, plenty of US guys have done the same swap you're doing with the auto xfer case.

Pinelli
20-11-2011, 11:26 AM
Before you get too carried away mate, there was a thread on another 4WD forum, where someone claimed that his auto was quicker and better on the fuel than his nephew's manual. It was for a terrano, which has the td27t. Have a look. Might depend on what you're planing on doing with it.

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Dave
21-11-2011, 07:53 AM
All depends on the gearing.

Auto's usually have higher diff ratio's though.

tatty
21-11-2011, 12:01 PM
Before you get too carried away mate, there was a thread on another 4WD forum, where someone claimed that his auto was quicker and better on the fuel than his nephew's manual. It was for a terrano, which has the td27t. Have a look. Might depend on what you're planing on doing with it.

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The auto is not quick. Once it hits around 4ish g revs, it's slow to accelerate further up from that. Plus I enjoy manual much, much more when I go off roads. I would of thought that like most manuals, it's better on fuel, and if you move your hands and feet quick enough you could wipe any auto box with a manual, as expected?

There is some serious panel damage on the rear of my 4b on the right hand quarter. My original plan was to fix it, but finding a terrano wreck is like a needle in a haystack. So I'm considering doing a rear half cut with a customed rear fire wall and a flat bed. I'd be light on the rear and quicker. But I doubt it's worth my money :)

Pinelli
21-11-2011, 02:21 PM
If you're anywhere near NQ I've got a Terrano wreck sitting in the shed at the moment, partially disassembled.

Dion
21-11-2011, 02:38 PM
The auto is not quick. Once it hits around 4ish g revs, it's slow to accelerate further up from that. Plus I enjoy manual much, much more when I go off roads. I would of thought that like most manuals, it's better on fuel, and if you move your hands and feet quick enough you could wipe any auto box with a manual, as expected?

You mean when the engine is at 4000rpm, it's slow to accelerate beyond that? 4000rpm is the redline?

Sometimes offroad I wish I had an automatic.

Better on fuel, for sure. You could probably beat an auto with a manual, but don't you own the wrong car to be worried about how quick you are?


There is some serious panel damage on the rear of my 4b on the right hand quarter. My original plan was to fix it, but finding a terrano wreck is like a needle in a haystack.

I've sent two good Terrano shells to the scrap merchant and I don't even own a Terrano. One of them was a partial wreck I bought off eBay for a dollar.


So I'm considering doing a rear half cut with a customed rear fire wall and a flat bed. I'd be light on the rear and quicker. But I doubt it's worth my money :)

Wouldn't that make it a SWB dual cab Navara?

tatty
22-11-2011, 01:11 PM
You mean when the engine is at 4000rpm, it's slow to accelerate beyond that? 4000rpm is the redline?

Sometimes offroad I wish I had an automatic.

Red line I think starts at 5. It's that bandwidth of the 1000 revs that you want the car to put out that it simply won't perform at all. Not with the gear ratio it has. 1st and 2nd are not tooooo bad, but the 3rd and 4th are really a draw back when you want it.

I get a bit sick of the automatic off road. It makes it a bit too easy. We can swap???


Better on fuel, for sure. You could probably beat an auto with a manual, but don't you own the wrong car to be worried about how quick you are?

I don't except to smash skylines at the lights. But on uphill climbs I really want actually keep up with others in the convoy. It's almost embarrassing that I hold up the rear half because I can't move to quick up tracks. I'm talking the gravels here.


I've sent two good Terrano shells to the scrap merchant and I don't even own a Terrano. One of them was a partial wreck I bought off eBay for a dollar.
Tell me where and I will go. I can find 2 door wrecks easy enough, but the 4 doors are a bit hard.


Wouldn't that make it a SWB dual cab Navara?
Hush! It would be a Navara!

squeak81
22-11-2011, 01:18 PM
Tatty, we have a 1992 terrano and a 1994 navara in the family. The terrano is auto and i can tell you it is quicker than the navara hands down. You might the auto needs a rebuild if it is gutless.

Also had the navara box rebuilt last year at a cost of $850 which was cheap due to us already replacing bearing etc several times before saying stuff this and dropping it off at a auto shop lol.

Dion
22-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Red line I think starts at 5. It's that bandwidth of the 1000 revs that you want the car to put out that it simply won't perform at all. Not with the gear ratio it has. 1st and 2nd are not tooooo bad, but the 3rd and 4th are really a draw back when you want it.

4,300 is where the red marks start on mine, and 4,500 is solid red. My QD32 - same engine but bigger, non-turbo, better intake - seems totally gutless beyond about 3,800.


I get a bit sick of the automatic off road. It makes it a bit too easy. We can swap???


We are incompatible - QD32 runs a bigger trans.


I don't except to smash skylines at the lights. But on uphill climbs I really want actually keep up with others in the convoy. It's almost embarrassing that I hold up the rear half because I can't move to quick up tracks. I'm talking the gravels here.

Sounds like something isn't working right in your engine or trans.



Tell me where and I will go. I can find 2 door wrecks easy enough, but the 4 doors are a bit hard.

What state do you live in? The one I got for $0.99 was a four door in white.

Dion
22-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Tatty, we have a 1992 terrano and a 1994 navara in the family. The terrano is auto and i can tell you it is quicker than the navara hands down.

Is the Navara turbo'd?

squeak81
22-11-2011, 10:11 PM
Yeh mate it is.

tatty
23-11-2011, 01:13 PM
Tatty, we have a 1992 terrano and a 1994 navara in the family. The terrano is auto and i can tell you it is quicker than the navara hands down. You might the auto needs a rebuild if it is gutless.

4 door or 2 door Terrano? There is nothing wrong with the autobox, it's as good as the day it was new (if I owned it new).

Also had the navara box rebuilt last year at a cost of $850 which was cheap due to us already replacing bearing etc several times before saying stuff this and dropping it off at a auto shop lol.
4,300 is where the red marks start on mine, and 4,500 is solid red. My QD32 - same engine but bigger, non-turbo, better intake - seems totally gutless beyond about 3,800.

I had a look at it today on the way to work. Between about 3 and 4 it just doesn't rev up. I presume, though, it's because it's a diesel and it simply just can't rev that high.


We are incompatible - QD32 runs a bigger trans.

I meant just swap cars... mull it over and get back to me :sarcastic:


Sounds like something isn't working right in your engine or trans.

The engine is wrong somewhere. I just don't know where.



What state do you live in? The one I got for $0.99 was a four door in white.
I'm in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. My locals which are Imlacs, Pick-A-Part and Centre Rd don't have anything.

Dion
23-11-2011, 01:29 PM
I'm in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. My locals which are Imlacs, Pick-A-Part and Centre Rd don't have anything.

Stuff wreckers, eBay is where it's at. And gumtree.

Dave
24-11-2011, 09:12 AM
I had a look at it today on the way to work. Between about 3 and 4 it just doesn't rev up. I presume, though, it's because it's a diesel and it simply just can't rev that high.

Even TD42Ti's do that, its the just the ancient indirect injection, limited adjustability of timing, 2 valve head design that limit it.

Drive a D40 and see how they are happy to rev all day.

Common rail technology, better head design and the computer can adjust the timing heaps more then any indirect injected mechanical injected diesel can.

tatty
24-11-2011, 10:58 AM
So basically, the engine is a POS.

You have seen anything on Gumtree/eBay?

Dion
24-11-2011, 01:36 PM
When I see something I'll let you know. You're just after a shell?

Pinelli
24-11-2011, 01:46 PM
So basically, the engine is a POS.

Depends on what you want it for. It's an old engine, in an old car. It's not going to compete with a modern diesel engine by any means.

Having said that, there's still a lot of old diesels out there chugging away with happy owners.

Do a compression test and get the state of the engine.

Another relatively simple thing to look at is the EGR. Is it still there? If it is, get rid of it, and clean out the intake manifold. If its all clogged up, you can sometimes find that the EGR valve gets stuck open, which will kill bottom end power. The black gunk can also restrict air flow, which will steal power as well.

It's a bit of a bugger getting to it all at the back of the block, but easier than changing gearboxes.

Dave
25-11-2011, 04:47 AM
Not a POS.

Far from it, they are reliable and still have a place.

Its like comparing a 250 Crossflow Falcon motor with a Barra 4.0L.

They both will make your car move, but the newer motor is more advanced and has more potential.

The TD27 and QD32 didn't survive this long by being piles of crap.

They survived by being good motors, just lacking the extra grunt.

Wind the boost up a bit and up the fuel to suit and they'll go alright.

tatty
28-11-2011, 02:33 PM
When I see something I'll let you know. You're just after a shell?
Anything that will ensure my rear right hand quarter does not look like it was attacked by a boulder.

Depends on what you want it for. It's an old engine, in an old car. It's not going to compete with a modern diesel engine by any means.

...

Do a compression test and get the state of the engine.

Another relatively simple thing to look at is the EGR. Is it still there? If it is, get rid of it, and clean out the intake manifold. If its all clogged up, you can sometimes find that the EGR valve gets stuck open, which will kill bottom end power. The black gunk can also restrict air flow, which will steal power as well.
I don't expect it to compete. I drive an i30 manual diesel at work sometimes, and it drives like it's a turbo'd petrol. It's out of control.

Compression test on a diesel? I presume you replace the glow plug with some kind of screw adapter thing? But I have no signs of low compression.

I'll check for EGR tomorrow, but I'll make sure I get rid of it! I am going to swap round to a new turbo, but it's a t25, not the t2. Plus it'd be good for me to pull off the intake manifold and clean up any of the oil that's been spitting into it.

Not a POS.

Far from it, they are reliable and still have a place.

Its like comparing a 250 Crossflow Falcon motor with a Barra 4.0L.

They both will make your car move, but the newer motor is more advanced and has more potential.

The TD27 and QD32 didn't survive this long by being piles of crap.

They survived by being good motors, just lacking the extra grunt.

Wind the boost up a bit and up the fuel to suit and they'll go alright.
Just nudging him on with his post :)
It is a tough engine, I will give it credit that it's probably the most sturdy and reliable diesel I've driven in a long while.

I wound up the boost without doing the fuel, and it didn't help. But I guess I should of cranked the fuel up as well since it became wasted air.

So I drove up from Melbourne to Sydney with an 800kg caravan the whole way. I wasn't able to hold a speed above 80km/h, but it got there in one piece. And I got an economy of 9l/100k return. How? I used the 2 stroke oil. But I decided to go with Shell 2T oil instead. It is by far the best I've used, it helped a lot.

Pinelli
28-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Compression test on a diesel? I presume you replace the glow plug with some kind of screw adapter thing? But I have no signs of low compression.

No sign other than being gutless and not revving high? Personally, it sounds like a fine old diesel to me, but a compression test is a fairly harmless test that will tell you a fair bit about the engine condition. I've never done a diesel compression test before, but yeah, I believe you screw it in where the glow plugs are. I might be corrected.

Dion
28-11-2011, 11:25 PM
I've never done a diesel compression test before, but yeah, I believe you screw it in where the glow plugs are.

Yeah that's right, but you'll need a gauge capable of measuring diesel cylinder pressure, and make sure the plumbing between the chamber and the gauge is as short as possible - the increase in effective cylinder area pushes you closer to a false positive for low compression, it's a common trap.

tatty
29-11-2011, 12:21 AM
No sign other than being gutless and not revving high? Personally, it sounds like a fine old diesel to me, but a compression test is a fairly harmless test that will tell you a fair bit about the engine condition. I've never done a diesel compression test before, but yeah, I believe you screw it in where the glow plugs are. I might be corrected.
It doesn't drive like it's low compression. No signs of it, anyway. It really does just drive like a regular, old diesel.

Where do you get these diesel compression test do hickeys from? I presume no glow plug size is universal.

Dave
29-11-2011, 07:45 AM
Is it still using oil ?

tatty
03-12-2011, 04:53 AM
Minimal. I lost about 100-150ml from my last oil change. And I presume that was just from the turbo forcing it down the throat of my intake.