Saw this on another forum, looks interesting, especially you guys running DPF's.
Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel
Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel
Adding 2-Stroke oil to Diesel
- Thread starter Jason
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That would be the case if there was someone in particular profiting from it.
There is quite a few links on it around the web, no-one appears to be saying it only works with a particular brand. Most people are trying by going into their sheds and using whatever mower/whipper snipper oil they have there, and getting results.
There is quite a few links on it around the web, no-one appears to be saying it only works with a particular brand. Most people are trying by going into their sheds and using whatever mower/whipper snipper oil they have there, and getting results.
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I agree that there's nobody to profit from it and the concensus is an improvement, and I won't disbelieve or believe it till I try it, but I have to ask, if it reduces wear & tear, reduces emissions, and improves economy, why isn't it already in the diesel in the first place?
Not sure, that's probably the big question.
What cost would it be to organisations to admit that current diesel fuel standards and diesel engines are not as compatible as they could be? What would it do to the cost of diesel? What damage would it do to a Government that ordered the lowering of vehicle emissions by removing sulphur, but would cost it's constituents more in the hip pocket (repair costs)?
Lot's of questions.
Here's another one; What Government/Fuel manufacturer/Vehicle manufacturer have you known to be 100% truthful to the public? Ouch, can feel a conspiracy theory coming on here and I hate those things! ha ha.
What cost would it be to organisations to admit that current diesel fuel standards and diesel engines are not as compatible as they could be? What would it do to the cost of diesel? What damage would it do to a Government that ordered the lowering of vehicle emissions by removing sulphur, but would cost it's constituents more in the hip pocket (repair costs)?
Lot's of questions.
Here's another one; What Government/Fuel manufacturer/Vehicle manufacturer have you known to be 100% truthful to the public? Ouch, can feel a conspiracy theory coming on here and I hate those things! ha ha.
Well, I'd like to think that competition would drive the fuel manufacturers to release such a product to get a temporary edge over their competitors. Regardless, BEFORE I get my injector system reconditioned which I need to do anyway, I will try this out.
felixblack
Member
I know running 2-stroke in a rotary motor (which also has similar benefits) will kill a catalytic converter if it is equipped with one. While it may produce less soot then diesel I’d imagine the oily residue won't be any better for the DPF especially at the concentration of 300mL/70L. I'm also not comftable with changing the properties of the deisel but I guess deisel engines can run varrying types of bio-deisel which actually has it's benefits. And then the cost for 300mL a tank it prob be cheaper to rebuild your injector pump every 400,000kms
felixblack
Member
hmmm after reading more into it i might give it a go one of these days 
Good find Jason!
Good find Jason!
Deejay
Member
Hi Guys,
I read the entire thread and reckon I'll give it a go when I get my new D22 in a few weeks. I spoke to a mate who works for Caltex and he reckons about 6 months ago Australia or Caltex at least, moved to Ulta Low Sulphur Diesel. This is new fuel for us and perhaps the car manufacturers aren't producing engines equipped for the almost non existent sulphur fuel.
It's like old cars that are converted to gas, they need to have oil injected into the fuel air mixture to prevent excessive engine wear.
In the entire thread I didn't read a single person who complained about negative effects on their using the 2 stroke in the diesel. Lots who tried it and were happy with better mileage, less emissions, quieter and smoother running etc etc.
At 200:1, I'll give it a go and see what it does, but will first run the engine without so I can get a comparison. I can't see it hurting the engine at all. It's a really interesting thread and I just love Logic, and there's lots of logic in it in the pro case and nothing but heresay and scare mongering on the anti side of the argument.
Modern CRD engines running injection pressures in the rail of up to 30,000 psi without lube is worrying to me. My current D22 3.0 is as rattly as on cold start up, might even try a dose in it to see if it quietens it down.
We'll see ......
DJ
I read the entire thread and reckon I'll give it a go when I get my new D22 in a few weeks. I spoke to a mate who works for Caltex and he reckons about 6 months ago Australia or Caltex at least, moved to Ulta Low Sulphur Diesel. This is new fuel for us and perhaps the car manufacturers aren't producing engines equipped for the almost non existent sulphur fuel.
It's like old cars that are converted to gas, they need to have oil injected into the fuel air mixture to prevent excessive engine wear.
In the entire thread I didn't read a single person who complained about negative effects on their using the 2 stroke in the diesel. Lots who tried it and were happy with better mileage, less emissions, quieter and smoother running etc etc.
At 200:1, I'll give it a go and see what it does, but will first run the engine without so I can get a comparison. I can't see it hurting the engine at all. It's a really interesting thread and I just love Logic, and there's lots of logic in it in the pro case and nothing but heresay and scare mongering on the anti side of the argument.
Modern CRD engines running injection pressures in the rail of up to 30,000 psi without lube is worrying to me. My current D22 3.0 is as rattly as on cold start up, might even try a dose in it to see if it quietens it down.
We'll see ......
DJ
Just a few things on what you've said there deejay and the direction this thread is headed in:
Diesel has a sufficient degree of lubricity to stem any worries about lubricating CRD fuel systems. Nissan CR engines are just about recent enough to be engines designed to meet Euro IV or V specs. European diesel went to ULSD with the introduction of Euro II, so you don't need to worry there.
The concern is not about lubrication. The concern surrounding ULSD is that the rubber seals in OLDER injector pumps (like mine) are thought to fail as they are designed for the presence of more than 10ppm of sulphur in the fuel. (one application of sulphur is vulcanising rubber). The thread that's linked to in the original post reckons that sulphur greases the pump. That is bullshit through and through, perhaps the true meaning was lost in translation.
At 200:1 2-stroke oil would need to have a fair bit of sulphur to replace what's gone from the diesel, like 1000ppm. Has 2-stroke ever smelt like rotten eggs?
Since when did injectors need lubrication?
The suggestion that the 2-stroke oil changes the flash point could be entirely valid. I'm not saying don't try it, I'll be trying it myself, but I too like Logic and the adoption of ULSD and the benefits of 2-stroke oil are totally unrelated.
Diesel has a sufficient degree of lubricity to stem any worries about lubricating CRD fuel systems. Nissan CR engines are just about recent enough to be engines designed to meet Euro IV or V specs. European diesel went to ULSD with the introduction of Euro II, so you don't need to worry there.
The concern is not about lubrication. The concern surrounding ULSD is that the rubber seals in OLDER injector pumps (like mine) are thought to fail as they are designed for the presence of more than 10ppm of sulphur in the fuel. (one application of sulphur is vulcanising rubber). The thread that's linked to in the original post reckons that sulphur greases the pump. That is bullshit through and through, perhaps the true meaning was lost in translation.
At 200:1 2-stroke oil would need to have a fair bit of sulphur to replace what's gone from the diesel, like 1000ppm. Has 2-stroke ever smelt like rotten eggs?
Since when did injectors need lubrication?
The suggestion that the 2-stroke oil changes the flash point could be entirely valid. I'm not saying don't try it, I'll be trying it myself, but I too like Logic and the adoption of ULSD and the benefits of 2-stroke oil are totally unrelated.
felixblack
Member
the concern is all about lubrication of the injector pump ProNav. older pumps that leak from low sulfur deisel is a seperate issue. sulfur does lubricate the pump and this is well known (though the word grease is the wrong translation). while todays pumps are designed for ULSD they do not have the duarbilty they once had. but is this all neccessary when the pump will prob last a few 100,000kms anyway
the 2-stroke oil is not supposed to add the sulfur back into the fuel it lubricates the pump by other means.
the bit i'm not convinced on is adding 300mL of low ash 2 stroke to a 60L tank is going to change the soot content by anything meaningful
the 2-stroke oil is not supposed to add the sulfur back into the fuel it lubricates the pump by other means.
the bit i'm not convinced on is adding 300mL of low ash 2 stroke to a 60L tank is going to change the soot content by anything meaningful
seriously i think it's stupid, if you want to do it go ahead.
diesel will run on nearly any kind of oil, you can put vegtable oil in your diesel and it will run off it. it wont run well.how is it supposed to stop the ash or clean it?????
seriosuly?
i run a diesel gas conversion and i know for a fast that it run's cleaner because it increase's the burn tempreture and burn's the unburnt diesel that was there before. and how can adding oil do this? i would have thought it would have just helped clogging up more stuff like injectors.
my solution put a chip on and run more fuel and it will lubricate the injector pump with fuel it's good enough for me
diesel will run on nearly any kind of oil, you can put vegtable oil in your diesel and it will run off it. it wont run well.how is it supposed to stop the ash or clean it?????
seriosuly?
i run a diesel gas conversion and i know for a fast that it run's cleaner because it increase's the burn tempreture and burn's the unburnt diesel that was there before. and how can adding oil do this? i would have thought it would have just helped clogging up more stuff like injectors.
my solution put a chip on and run more fuel and it will lubricate the injector pump with fuel it's good enough for me
The majority of what I've read points to the fact that one of the processes used to strip sulphur from the diesel also reduces the lubricity of other elements in the diesel, so we have a standard in Australia for the minimum lubricity of diesel fuel to discourage this method.
I'd have thought sulphur impurities provide a minimal proportion of lubrication. Has anybody's diesel pump worn out faster than intended in the years since 2000 when we went gradually from 5000ppm max to 50ppm, a huge decrease compared with decreasing the maximum content from 50ppm to 10ppm?
I've been reading about this here & on the link provided, sound's interesting so. I thought I'd give it a go. I added 300ml to a full tank of diesel in my 04 d22. It's got 118000km on the clock & I've just done the EGR / Butterfly mod.The one thing I've realey noticed is how much quieter the motor sounds on cold start ups. We did a trip out west last weekend & the temp was 3 degrees early in the morning when I started her up. It was much quieter than normal. I didn't notice any real change in fuel consumption or power. I think I will keep doing it unless I hear any reports on bad things happening. Has any one else tried it yet ?
Hootie.
Hootie.
Deejay
Member
Hey Hootie,
Yep! I put my money where my mouth is and threw in 300ml of 2 stroke as well. I also told my old man and a good mate who both have CRD engines in new utes.
My mate Dave went first and sid he noticed first thing next morning that the engine was heaps quieter on cold starts. He didn't notice any difference in smoke, fuel economy or power but he also doesn't check his fuel consumption or calculate his economy either.
I waited til I needed to refuel and then tossed in the oil and filled her up with dieso. The drive home was barely long enough to get the new mixture into the injectors so I did a couple of bog laps around the block before putting it to bed for the night. Next day I started her up cold and she was significantly more quiet, I reckon bordering on warm engine noise loudness.
I'm monitoring my fuel economy so will tell you once the tank gets refilled if economy was any better or worse.
So far: No negetives but she runs quieter and a bit smoother. Now this begs the question, what makes the injector pump so loud without the 2-stroke oil? If the oil does nothing as some members have suggested, then what is making it so quiet?
The oil is obviously lubricating something in the pump or changing the flash temperature of the dieso and therefor the timing? Perhaps we'll see with the economy figures.
More on this when the tanks empty ......
Regards,
DJ
Yep! I put my money where my mouth is and threw in 300ml of 2 stroke as well. I also told my old man and a good mate who both have CRD engines in new utes.
My mate Dave went first and sid he noticed first thing next morning that the engine was heaps quieter on cold starts. He didn't notice any difference in smoke, fuel economy or power but he also doesn't check his fuel consumption or calculate his economy either.
I waited til I needed to refuel and then tossed in the oil and filled her up with dieso. The drive home was barely long enough to get the new mixture into the injectors so I did a couple of bog laps around the block before putting it to bed for the night. Next day I started her up cold and she was significantly more quiet, I reckon bordering on warm engine noise loudness.
I'm monitoring my fuel economy so will tell you once the tank gets refilled if economy was any better or worse.
So far: No negetives but she runs quieter and a bit smoother. Now this begs the question, what makes the injector pump so loud without the 2-stroke oil? If the oil does nothing as some members have suggested, then what is making it so quiet?
The oil is obviously lubricating something in the pump or changing the flash temperature of the dieso and therefor the timing? Perhaps we'll see with the economy figures.
More on this when the tanks empty ......
Regards,
DJ
It's interesting because the main (speculative) advantage is with what you can't see or hear and that is the internals of the injector pump. Less noise alludes to the reasoning that it must be doing less damage but short of pulling apart a pump that has done 300'000 k's (and has had the oil added) it's going to be hard to gauge the pro's.
People tend to stick with things that give them short term results, i.e. power or fuel economy. It appears people will be getting neither with this so it will be interesting to see if many people do it for extended lengths of time.
People tend to stick with things that give them short term results, i.e. power or fuel economy. It appears people will be getting neither with this so it will be interesting to see if many people do it for extended lengths of time.
felixblack
Member
i've used 300mL in my last tank. haven't noticed anything yet. but will be interesting to hear if there is any difference in noise on a cold start.
Deejay
Member
Hi Guys,
Wise words from Jason, you're quite right in that we really need tangible results to warrant the hassle and expense of the process of adding 2-stroke to the tank every fill. This is why I'm curious to see the mileage difference (if any) at the end of the tank.
There is quite a strong possibility of reduced wear in the injector pump by the sound of the engine with the changed fuel, but as others have also pointed out, It is normal to expect 100,000+km of trouble free service from our pumps without the addition of the oil, but will the pump perform with less wear and tear and subsequently provide tighter and more consistent original performance over time, perhaps negating the eventual loss of performance through wear and tear? Perhaps.
So at the end of the day, I, and I'm guessing most original owners wont keep their Navs for more than 5 years, and so I reckon I need to see better returns also than just a quieter engine to push me to keep the discipline of adding oil.
It is a fascinating experiment though and I reckon I'll be doing it to my new Nav too, at least in the mean time.....
Cheers,
DJ
Wise words from Jason, you're quite right in that we really need tangible results to warrant the hassle and expense of the process of adding 2-stroke to the tank every fill. This is why I'm curious to see the mileage difference (if any) at the end of the tank.
There is quite a strong possibility of reduced wear in the injector pump by the sound of the engine with the changed fuel, but as others have also pointed out, It is normal to expect 100,000+km of trouble free service from our pumps without the addition of the oil, but will the pump perform with less wear and tear and subsequently provide tighter and more consistent original performance over time, perhaps negating the eventual loss of performance through wear and tear? Perhaps.
So at the end of the day, I, and I'm guessing most original owners wont keep their Navs for more than 5 years, and so I reckon I need to see better returns also than just a quieter engine to push me to keep the discipline of adding oil.
It is a fascinating experiment though and I reckon I'll be doing it to my new Nav too, at least in the mean time.....
Cheers,
DJ
K
Krankin
Guest
Here's my 2 cents worth.
Extra/foreign oil in fuel leads to detonation! Fact!
not to mention fouling
I'd rather rebuild a pump, (probably not in my engines life), than an engine that has melted pistons.
How many have rebuilt their pumps lately? not many i dont think.
Is it worth the risk? Not for me.
If it aint broke ,dont fix it.
Maybe worth talkin to some i/state truck driver owners. they do millions of miles, have not heard of any at my cousin's workshop replacing their pumps every 100,000, but I've seen many times what detonation does to an engine
Extra/foreign oil in fuel leads to detonation! Fact!
not to mention fouling
I'd rather rebuild a pump, (probably not in my engines life), than an engine that has melted pistons.
How many have rebuilt their pumps lately? not many i dont think.
Is it worth the risk? Not for me.
If it aint broke ,dont fix it.
Maybe worth talkin to some i/state truck driver owners. they do millions of miles, have not heard of any at my cousin's workshop replacing their pumps every 100,000, but I've seen many times what detonation does to an engine
One of the reasons that convinced me to try this, is that I was talking to a customer of mine who owns a small trucking company. He told me that he has been using two stroke oil in all of his truck's for years. admittedly all of his truck's are Macks / Kenworth's etc But he swears by this practice for engine longevity & is also running it in his F truck. But I am still keeping an open mind on reason's for & against.
Hootie
Hootie
