Improving the standard Suspension

Aido · Nov 29, 2009

Improving the standard Suspension - problem found

Not Happy with the standard suspension. It's bloody harsh and bone jarring. I dont want to lift it because I find that our clearance is suitable for what is required plus the vehicle has to be used everyday as Ange's transport to and from work where she parks in a carpark with only 1.9m clearance.
The vehicle isn't at the moment and nor can I see it carrying 1T of equipment and so I would like to soften it up front and rear. Has anyone done this? What did you install or did you have installed and by whom? Is there anyone else in my situation?
I like the look of fitting airbags for future loads if we eventually get a camper trailer. Anyone have experience with these? Airbags that is.
Looking at getting a second set of wheels to fit weekend rubber BFG 265 75 16's and that should take care of anything we want to do offroad for now.

Cheers
Aido

Still got heaps of questions to come :big_smile:

Dion · Nov 29, 2009

You can look into removing a leaf from the rear leaf packs.

And go for custom dampers?

I've heard (from Tweak'e I think?) about trouble with airbags damaging chassis, so you might like to look into the chassis rail being triple skinned where the top of the airbag sits.

Jason · Nov 29, 2009

If you want to soften it up I would just change the shocks, maybe go for some adjustables so you can play around with them a bit.

Removing a leaf is a good idea as well, will soften the back up.

Aido · Nov 29, 2009

Will talk to a few shops around town this week and update what they say.

Dion · Nov 29, 2009

Jason said:
Removing a leaf is a good idea as well, will soften the back up.

Think we could market that? "Take-A-Leaf". Bet it would sell by the millions.

Please do Aido I'd be very curious to hear the suspension shops' suggestions.

Leprechaun · Nov 29, 2009

Pull out the load carrying springs, or put 2 bags of cement in the back. I think just about every 4wd ute it harsh unloaded.

tweak'e · Nov 29, 2009

<shakes head at the comments so far>

do NOT take a leaf out of the springs. the spring pack is too weak as it is. you need to put one IN !
either add a leaf or change the whole pack. several makes have a 2" lift normal duty springs. this will give you more travel and make the ride a whole lot softer.
change shocks as well if needed.

i don't think you will have a height problem, i used to drive vans into plenty of car parks and only had a few with height problems. the D22 is a lot lower. if in doubt measure it.

airbags, handy if you have heavy loads. not suited for this application tho.
btw cracking problem is due to people pumping them up to much rather than spreading the load over the whole spring setup.

Old.Tony · Nov 29, 2009

I like the idea of just adding some cargo. If you park outside and don't like your neighbours, 12 bags of Dynamic Lifter ought to do the trick. As they mellow a bit, take them to a friend's place and pour over the garden, wash the tub and repeat.

I just keep my tools, fridge, folding chairs and a few odds and ends in the back - maybe 50-60Kg worth. With the canopy on top, it seems to be enough to keep the tail settled, but she'd probably be even better with another 40-50Kg in there.

Matt - VNET Pro · Nov 29, 2009

I have gone with the Rancho adjustable shocks front & rear and also run Air Bags in the rear with H/D Ridepro Springs. You wont need the H/D springs but would recommend the shocks to soften up the ride, you can get them in standard height or 2" lift if required.

Aido · Nov 30, 2009

Visited 2 places this arfternoon to get an idea of what would be required.

1. Pedders Suspension. Recomended changing shocks all round to their product "Comfort Gas" and was told that that may make a difference. The next step would be to remove a leaf from the pack and then add "Ride-rite" airbags for future load carrying. I was not 100% sold on this as the bloke selling to me, helpful as he was, did not seem confident in the solution himself - Quoted price for Pedders shocks x4 supplied and fitted inc wheel alignment $580.
2. Next stop 4x4 obsession in Melton. An independent 4x4 workshop. Very knowledgeable bloke behind the counter (forgotten his name though)that was more than happy to deal with my questions. Top Service from the very begining :thumbsup: Recomendation was to fit EFS shocks all round and to upgrade the torsion bars to EFS also to cater for the bar and winch. Guarenteed me that the EFS shocks would definitely improve matters. Total cost $1040 all fitted and aligned. Shocks priced at $135 each and the pair of bars $500 fitted. He also said that I could either through a 1/2 dozen bags of cement in the back or remove a leaf - apparently it is a viable modification. I would rather not though and would rather get it set up right.

Leprechaun · Nov 30, 2009

Aido said:
Visited 2 places this arfternoon to get an idea of what would be required.

1. Pedders Suspension. Recomended changing shocks all round to their product "Comfort Gas" and was told that that may make a difference. The next step would be to remove a leaf from the pack and then add "Ride-rite" airbags for future load carrying. I was not 100% sold on this as the bloke selling to me, helpful as he was, did not seem confident in the solution himself - Quoted price for Pedders shocks x4 supplied and fitted inc wheel alignment $580.
2. Next stop 4x4 obsession in Melton. An independent 4x4 workshop. Very knowledgeable bloke behind the counter (forgotten his name though)that was more than happy to deal with my questions. Top Service from the very begining :thumbsup: Recomendation was to fit EFS shocks all round and to upgrade the torsion bars to EFS also to cater for the bar and winch. Guarenteed me that the EFS shocks would definitely improve matters. Total cost $1040 all fitted and aligned. Shocks priced at $135 each and the pair of bars $500 fitted. He also said that I could either through a 1/2 dozen bags of cement in the back or remove a leaf - apparently it is a viable modification. I would rather not though and would rather get it set up right.

You can spend $1000+ and still not have the suspension set up you expected. I've made my own rear leaf pack, because know one in OZ would build me a soft 3" lifted spring.

tweak'e · Nov 30, 2009

i can't believe they even suggested removing a leaf....FFS ! ! ! !
the d22 is well know to have bananna leafs, so they take one out and let it bend even more ??
sure it will soften it up but you will smack the bump stops so often you will wear them out !
trust me its painful when you hit them !

to say to use airbags to cover up the lack of suspension ! !

thats a good way of stuffing a chassis !

to run soft suspension you need suspension TRAVEL. otherwise the suspension has to get very hard very quickly to avoid smacking the bump stops. its that sudden hardening that makes it so uncomfortable.

thats the big bonus we first found after getting an extra main leaf fitted. first thing we noticed was the lack of bumps you felt. no banging on the potholes/ripples on the road. and thats still with standard shocks.
we can shove over a ton on the deck (granted its single cab, double cabs are different) and i have yet to hit the bump stops.
win-win

Aido · Nov 30, 2009

I'm going to go for the shock absorber change to begin with. I don't agree with removing leaves either. It would seem to me that that most of the harshness comes from the damping force of the originals. Adjustable shocks would be good to be able to tune the suspension but once thats done it would be rarely touched and at more than twice the price for adjustable shocks I cant see the benefit. Why cant they valve a shock to perform within a certain range instead of "here try this, that might fix it"?
I come to this 4wd'ing thing with a background of high performance sports motorcycles and road racing ( thats racing bikes on a closed bitumen track, not racing bikes on the road BTW) and so I understand how suspension and tyres work but I cant believe the misconceptions and products available that may or may not work here in the automotive world.
Bikes are easy to sort, I thought these tractors would be even easier again.

tweak'e · Nov 30, 2009

bikes might be easier. the heavy weight of 4x4 wheels makes it difficult. also big tires which also act like springs is another factor to try to account for.
shocks should ideally only be there to dampen the resonate vibrations in the springs, not do the springs job.

i was into dirt track racing (ie sprint cars) many years ago and suspension design gets really curly on those.

Leprechaun · Nov 30, 2009

Aido said:
I'm going to go for the shock absorber change to begin with. I don't agree with removing leaves either. It would seem to me that that most of the harshness comes from the damping force of the originals. Adjustable shocks would be good to be able to tune the suspension but once thats done it would be rarely touched and at more than twice the price for adjustable shocks I cant see the benefit. Why cant they valve a shock to perform within a certain range instead of "here try this, that might fix it"?
I come to this 4wd'ing thing with a background of high performance sports motorcycles and road racing ( thats racing bikes on a closed bitumen track, not racing bikes on the road BTW) and so I understand how suspension and tyres work but I cant believe the misconceptions and products available that may or may not work here in the automotive world.
Bikes are easy to sort, I thought these tractors would be even easier again.

Bilstein, radflo, etc can be valved any way you like, just going to cost you more.

trying to set up a commercial ute for daily communting and offroad performance is always going to be a little difficult, you'll need to sacrifice a little bit here and there.

Aido · Nov 30, 2009

tweak'e said:
shocks should ideally only be there to dampen the resonate vibrations in the springs, not do the springs job.

But the spring is there to act upon input forces and to return the suspension to its preloaded weight as governed by the spring tension. This is set by the amount of winds and the thickness of the material it is made from. This equals the spring rate or the "weight" of the spring. The shock absorber is to counteract the inputs, to add a dampening and rebound to slow the spring down in its rate of travel north or south.
Resonate frequency in springs is something different altogether.

tweak'e · Nov 30, 2009

sorry your quite right, my bad choice of words.
it must be time for another beer.........

Aido · Nov 30, 2009

tweak'e said:
sorry your quite right, my bad choice of words.
it must be time for another beer.........

No worries my shout!
Good to have a decent conversation with knowledgeable people and appreciate your input.
Besides been home a little while and had a few meself so this might deteriorate fairly rapidly from here :victory:

Aido · Dec 1, 2009

For interest sake I am going to speak to the spare parts counter at a local Nissan dealership tomorrow. When we were signing up for the vehicle the sales guy flipped us an ARB catalogue and said "what do you want?". I said everything but the missus made me shortlist it :stop:

. I would be interested to get the perspective of anyone else at Nissan aside from the Snake oil pedlar.

Firefly · Dec 7, 2009

Softer Rear End

Hi to all,
Topic prob covered 10000 times ---- 09 Navara rear suspension - hard as $%*&^. Changed shocks day bought car home from dealer - EFS all round. Know someone will say "change springs".........no prob - but am looking for recommendation as to WHICH springs and what load rating etc. Vehicle carries nothing in rear tray.......havent even rolled back tonneau since purchase. Do some "medium" offroad excursions but spend more time on formed roads......if you can call some of the roads in outer Western Syd that. I agree with someones' comment re rear susp........its bone jarring and uncomfortable..........I know someone will say... "Well what do you expect from a $%#^&& ute.." no prob......thats human nature......but there are people out there who have soften their STr's rears and I am just looking for advice / guidance. Thanx in advance for your help.

Improving the standard Suspension

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