slyd40
Member
just wanting to know what brand dual battery kits and where are yous putting the 2nd battery? pics would be nice
dual batterys on d40
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KraftyPg
Guest
You'll probably find many kits out there from companies like Redarc and Projecta to companies like ARB and TJM who possibly just resell someone elses kits.
I myself use a Projecta 100 mainly due to the 150 being a bit of an overkill for an 100amp alternator in the Nav and because of it's cost compared to the 100. They are a breeze to install (but then so are Redarc) and providing you use the right cable you should have no problems with it.
You can buy the Projecta kits off ebay but I believe it's cheaper to buy the unit by itself and then source the cables and connectors elsewhere (10mm2 is what I used). I don't remember what I paid for my kit because it was trade price and the cable was free but I believe the Projecta unit was going on ebay for about $90 and the kit was going for about $240.
The D40 has a lack of space in the engine room but it is still possible to find a mounting place. My Projecta is mounted on the battery mount and then the cable runs around the top of the firewall (through a self resetting fuse), down through the firewall into the passenger foot well and along the door seals into the tub where the second battery is hooked up in the front corner of the tub.
Not sure on the distance limitations of other brands but the Projecta has a 4 meter max cable run between the main battery and the isolator which means mounting the isolator anywhere in the tub is close to its limits (by the time you run up and down different parts of the body work) but the distance from the isolator to the second battery isn't an issue so mounting in the engine room is probably the best option.
Many other have used external means to run their cables and although that was going to be my first choice in the end I decided that going through the cab was heaps easier (I didn't have to get under the car) and it meant I could come off the cable anywhere inside the cab to run things like my CB, camera screen, alternate 12v outlets etc.
In the tub I run things like a fridge, external lighting, extra 12v outlets, the 190AH battery sits in a plastic box which is in turn mounted in a wooden tool box (painted close to the colour of the car), all the cables are hidden neatly behind the box and the whole lot can be removed in about 3 minutes if need be.
Is that enough info for you?
I myself use a Projecta 100 mainly due to the 150 being a bit of an overkill for an 100amp alternator in the Nav and because of it's cost compared to the 100. They are a breeze to install (but then so are Redarc) and providing you use the right cable you should have no problems with it.
You can buy the Projecta kits off ebay but I believe it's cheaper to buy the unit by itself and then source the cables and connectors elsewhere (10mm2 is what I used). I don't remember what I paid for my kit because it was trade price and the cable was free but I believe the Projecta unit was going on ebay for about $90 and the kit was going for about $240.
The D40 has a lack of space in the engine room but it is still possible to find a mounting place. My Projecta is mounted on the battery mount and then the cable runs around the top of the firewall (through a self resetting fuse), down through the firewall into the passenger foot well and along the door seals into the tub where the second battery is hooked up in the front corner of the tub.
Not sure on the distance limitations of other brands but the Projecta has a 4 meter max cable run between the main battery and the isolator which means mounting the isolator anywhere in the tub is close to its limits (by the time you run up and down different parts of the body work) but the distance from the isolator to the second battery isn't an issue so mounting in the engine room is probably the best option.
Many other have used external means to run their cables and although that was going to be my first choice in the end I decided that going through the cab was heaps easier (I didn't have to get under the car) and it meant I could come off the cable anywhere inside the cab to run things like my CB, camera screen, alternate 12v outlets etc.
In the tub I run things like a fridge, external lighting, extra 12v outlets, the 190AH battery sits in a plastic box which is in turn mounted in a wooden tool box (painted close to the colour of the car), all the cables are hidden neatly behind the box and the whole lot can be removed in about 3 minutes if need be.
Is that enough info for you?
Matt76
Member
I basically got all the bits and made my own kit, and believe me if I can do it anyone can. I got a voltage sensitive relay (VSR) and it does the work of cutting or connecting the power when it is needed. I got it because it is fully sealed and waterproof. It looks exactly the same as the ironman relay so I imagine they are exactly the same thing with different logo's.
I made up a custom box and mounted the battery in the tub, and fitted a battery meter and switch panel in the back aswell so that I can access power easily. I run a 120 a/h AGM battery
I made up a custom box and mounted the battery in the tub, and fitted a battery meter and switch panel in the back aswell so that I can access power easily. I run a 120 a/h AGM battery
I purchased 6metres of 6 B&S cable from Sidewinder (ABR - SIDEWINDER). Also purchased the lugs and 2 x 50Amp auto resetting circuit breakers and various other bits and pieces (circuit breaker plastic covers etc).
Ran the cable from the front battery into the tub (there is a grommet in the wall of the tub which faces the rear of the cab). I ran both of the cables within a single split tubing, taped with electrical tape and cable tied along the chassis within another cable tube already factory installed (looks factory fitted).
I also used the isolator from Sidewinder (well priced, about $70 from memory). With this size cable you can mount the isolator in either the engine bay or rear of the tray. In my D22 I mounted mine in the engine bay. In my D40 I'm going to mount mine inside the battery box in the tub so it is fully self contained (and lack of room in the engine bay). I should be finishing mine off this weekend.
Ran the cable from the front battery into the tub (there is a grommet in the wall of the tub which faces the rear of the cab). I ran both of the cables within a single split tubing, taped with electrical tape and cable tied along the chassis within another cable tube already factory installed (looks factory fitted).
I also used the isolator from Sidewinder (well priced, about $70 from memory). With this size cable you can mount the isolator in either the engine bay or rear of the tray. In my D22 I mounted mine in the engine bay. In my D40 I'm going to mount mine inside the battery box in the tub so it is fully self contained (and lack of room in the engine bay). I should be finishing mine off this weekend.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
For the record (or those that follow who may ask the question). The difference between a relay and isolator is that an isolator isolates the second battery from the first therefore will not allow the second battery to copy the characteristics of the first battery.
Isolators stop the second battery over charging whether the first battery is charging or not. They can also stop both batteries from discharging one after the other. In its simplest form an isolator will always keep any number of batteries isolated from the cranking battery where as a relay keeps them connected.
While this is suitable for some people you can never rely on the second battery as a cranking battery if the main fails as there is always a good chance through the relay the second is in the same condition. Some isolators allow you to crank the car over without removal while some don't have the circuitry, although I believe many newer isolators allow it these days.
Thats the basic difference anyway, there is many other reasons for an against both sides and people will ultimately choose what's right for them by listening to or seeing others.
Isolators stop the second battery over charging whether the first battery is charging or not. They can also stop both batteries from discharging one after the other. In its simplest form an isolator will always keep any number of batteries isolated from the cranking battery where as a relay keeps them connected.
While this is suitable for some people you can never rely on the second battery as a cranking battery if the main fails as there is always a good chance through the relay the second is in the same condition. Some isolators allow you to crank the car over without removal while some don't have the circuitry, although I believe many newer isolators allow it these days.
Thats the basic difference anyway, there is many other reasons for an against both sides and people will ultimately choose what's right for them by listening to or seeing others.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
Oh yeah the other thing I always do when hooking up a second battery is make sure the earth wire from the second battery goes back to the first battery. It's by no means a necessity as you can always use the chassis but given most cable comes with a red and black and you're already running the red it's just as easy to run them both and that way you know that both batteries are earthed at the same good earthing point, it's also a lot easier to find should you be out in the bush looking for an earthing fault.
run a muck
Member
slyd40
Member
thanks for the replys people has help alot
Just to make sure nobody actually tries this ...
When you run your battery cables from the engine bay into the tub to the second battery (regardless of how you isolate the two), never, never, ever try to defeat the isolation to engage that second battery to crank the motor over.
The current draw during the starting process is very high, will generally overheat and melt the usual 6mm cables within a couple of seconds and that may mean your vehicle will catch on fire.
I agree with Krafty about the earthing. For my money, I'd have fuses on both ends of the cable, as close to the battery as possible, because it isn't the other end I'm worried about, it's the in-between bits of the cable being damaged through chafing or debris.
Also, a reminder about capacity: your alternator is designed to only charge your starter battery to about 70-75% of its rated capacity, to prevent it from gassing. Your secondary battery - being fed the same voltage - will be limited to the same 70-75% capacity. Since you should only ever (at worst case) let your battery fall to 50% of its charge to prevent damage to the cells, your usable capacity is just 20-25% of the battery's rated capacity.
By using an inverter in the tub, use a charger like the C-Tek Charger Series (I have the XS-7000 installed in my caravan, powered by an inverter supplied with power from the vehicle). Your battery will be maintained at 100% of its charge, giving you 50% of its capacity instead.
And no, I don't resell C-Tek chargers or have shares in the company!
When you run your battery cables from the engine bay into the tub to the second battery (regardless of how you isolate the two), never, never, ever try to defeat the isolation to engage that second battery to crank the motor over.
The current draw during the starting process is very high, will generally overheat and melt the usual 6mm cables within a couple of seconds and that may mean your vehicle will catch on fire.
I agree with Krafty about the earthing. For my money, I'd have fuses on both ends of the cable, as close to the battery as possible, because it isn't the other end I'm worried about, it's the in-between bits of the cable being damaged through chafing or debris.
Also, a reminder about capacity: your alternator is designed to only charge your starter battery to about 70-75% of its rated capacity, to prevent it from gassing. Your secondary battery - being fed the same voltage - will be limited to the same 70-75% capacity. Since you should only ever (at worst case) let your battery fall to 50% of its charge to prevent damage to the cells, your usable capacity is just 20-25% of the battery's rated capacity.
By using an inverter in the tub, use a charger like the C-Tek Charger Series (I have the XS-7000 installed in my caravan, powered by an inverter supplied with power from the vehicle). Your battery will be maintained at 100% of its charge, giving you 50% of its capacity instead.
And no, I don't resell C-Tek chargers or have shares in the company!
K
KraftyPg
Guest
On the note that Tony made about cranking the engine with the second battery the Projectas (and maybe others) do allow for cranking from the second battery if the main is flat as they have the switching mechanism designed to allow cranking, obviously your second battery has to have cranking power for this to work and it's a manual switch to make it happen but it can be done. Also as Tony suggested get appropriate cable if you think this option is something you might need, 6mm cable wont suffice.
Also another bit of theory which is worth noting. Unless you've installed an after market alternator over 100amps there really is no need to spend money on 150amp (or more) isolators. Even if the current model alternator was 100Amp (from memory I think it's 80) there is no possible way that you will ever get 100amps down the line to your second battery given that charging of the second battery only ever happens when the engine is running and even with things like radios and lights turned off the other electrics are still taking some of those amps from the alternator. While having some sort of buffer is always a good move you will find that the 100amp Projecta is actually good for 125amp short term before it switches off so even if you managed to get 100amps the Projectas would survive, other brands probably have the same fail safes in place too.
As for maintaining charge my fridge has a 240V inverter in it which means I could run any battery charger off it while traveling (although it's usually the Sat phone charger when I forget to plug it in) but I find that as long as the battery is charged before I leave for trips it will suffice for the whole trip, to me running inverters to charger batteries isn't viable but everyone has different theories and for those of you who don't want or need inverters a decent 3 stage battery charger will always suffice as long as you remember to use it.
Also another bit of theory which is worth noting. Unless you've installed an after market alternator over 100amps there really is no need to spend money on 150amp (or more) isolators. Even if the current model alternator was 100Amp (from memory I think it's 80) there is no possible way that you will ever get 100amps down the line to your second battery given that charging of the second battery only ever happens when the engine is running and even with things like radios and lights turned off the other electrics are still taking some of those amps from the alternator. While having some sort of buffer is always a good move you will find that the 100amp Projecta is actually good for 125amp short term before it switches off so even if you managed to get 100amps the Projectas would survive, other brands probably have the same fail safes in place too.
As for maintaining charge my fridge has a 240V inverter in it which means I could run any battery charger off it while traveling (although it's usually the Sat phone charger when I forget to plug it in) but I find that as long as the battery is charged before I leave for trips it will suffice for the whole trip, to me running inverters to charger batteries isn't viable but everyone has different theories and for those of you who don't want or need inverters a decent 3 stage battery charger will always suffice as long as you remember to use it.
Circuit Breakers are better than fuses, and yes there should be one at each end as close to the +ve terminals that can be allowed for.
I also agree that the -ve connection from the second battery should be earthed to the main battery -ve rather than finding a point near the tub.
Definetely agree that you shouldn't be cranking off the second battery in the tray given the cable that is likely run for this kind of install. Just as easy (if necessary) to change the batteries over in an emergency (providing your second battery is a cranking battery).
I also agree that the -ve connection from the second battery should be earthed to the main battery -ve rather than finding a point near the tub.
Definetely agree that you shouldn't be cranking off the second battery in the tray given the cable that is likely run for this kind of install. Just as easy (if necessary) to change the batteries over in an emergency (providing your second battery is a cranking battery).
Orrsom
Member
105AH Thumperpack.
Me too! and its portable so when camping you can take the fridge out of the truck; nobody wants to walk for a beer
Matt76
Member
Did you choose the pink cables on purpose Hoggy?LOL
blue boy
Member
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