Snorkles=cleaner air=bullshite!

Hey all just thought I would start an argument (topic) about peoples experiences with snorkles.

As some may be aware I work in the 4wd industry and there are those in the industry who may mock me for saying it but I believe that snorkles are marketed with some inflated claims.

Don't get me wrong I have had a snorkle fitted to my current vehicle but it was purely for the reason of keeping water out of the air intake and no other.

I have seen it over and over again with both my own vehicles and those that have come in to work for servicing that those with snorkles have always got far greater amounts of crap in the air box/filter than those without snorkles.

I just this morning took the filter out of my d40 for inspection after fitting a snorkle about 5k km's ago and it is sooo dirty compared to what it used to be for the same driving conditions.

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that even though in a small way my employment relies on selling/fitting these sort of things I would like there to be a bit more honesty involved with the pro's and cons of fitting a snorkle to your vehicle.
Remember there are a lot of those out there that have no experience and will listen to those who are supposed to know better. If they are getting sold a snorkle under the pretence of getting "cleaner air" to the motor I believe they are getting misled. After all 500 odd dollars could go a long way toward other things if you only want a snorkle for clean air and never really plan on using the vehicle in a wet environment. They are good insurance for water but that is the only thing I can say good about snorkles.

Just my oppinion but feel free to comment. I guess having a couple of beers after doing all the weekend chores is not a good idea!!! ha ha

Yes you might well be starting an argument.

There's a difference somewhat to your saying"cleaner air to the engine" and my saying my filter stays cleaner for longer in the conditions i mentioned with a snorkel fitted.

I dont think anyone is trying to mislead anyone,
but just providing their own experiences,
some of which you've not come across.

My reason for fitting a snorkel is purely for the reason that my element stays cleaner for longer in the enviroments i habitat.
After having to weekly shovel out dirt from the filter and airbox due to working in motorway/tunnel/mining construction because the standard intake is in the front wheelwell.
There is not the dirt collecting in the wheelwell and being sucked up into the airbox at the snorkel intake.
The only thing i get more of is bugs.

Thats my bullshite experience for a non 4wd industry worker...take it or leave it.

I can't recall the situation in previous vehicles I've owned with snorkels.

With the D40, I noticed a difference after fitting a snorkel. I now find there is an apparent increase in large paticulate matter (eg bugs) in the air cleaner housing than prior to snorkel fitment, however there also appears to be a substantially lower amount of fine dust contamination of the filter element.

Working on a farm we find fitting a snorkel to all our work vehicles is almost mandatory if you don't want to dust the motor. Driving through bulldust and stubbles every day fills your whole engine bay up with dust and crap and having the snorkel fitted keeps the intake above it all, assuming you drive at a decent speed. I wouldn't be without one.

The difference advised to me by the dealer was that there'd be less dust, because the intake was higher up away from the wheels. I have no reason to doubt that. Heavy particles won't stay airborne for long anyway, but they'd easily pour off the tyre and into the the airbox - but they'd fall back to the ground as long as I was traveling a reasonable (and might I add, sensible) distance behind the vehicle in front.

I suppose if we were worried about bugs we could always turn the head backwards. Or we could build a mesh deflector screen that mounts in front of the snorkel, which will probably stop the bug itself from getting into the air intake but would guarantee that its guts will.

I reckon it depends what conditions you are driving in. On a country dirt road at 100 odd km/h, instead of the wheels strirring up all the dust and sucking it in through the engine bay, the snorkel is up in the air getting nice clean air. Out at Landcruiser park last weekend however, the conditions were really dusty and I often had to sit back from Jason so that I could see where I was going, in these conditions the snorkel is like a vaccuum sucking it all straight down to the filter.

Driving in the UK my snorkel is obviously only for wet conditions and its great for that. However even though its never dusty round here and most of my miles are on the black top my K&N filter needs de clogging every 5-6 thousand miles as its full of crap

I found that when driving in convoy that the snorkle just sucks in extra dust, plus a lot more bugs and small leaves make it into the air cleaner. I have tried a snorkle filter when off roading to prevent it but they do need reqular maintenance.

I also think the ram air effect is bull too. 2-3m of pipe and a number of 90 and 180 degree bends to push air through before the filter. Doubt there is much air being rammed through all that.

The snorkle companies are just trying to increase their target market as bugger all people drive their 4x4 through deep water crossings that do require a snorkle as insurance.

Peter ST_R said:

I also think the ram air effect is bull too. 2-3m of pipe and a number of 90 and 180 degree bends to push air through before the filter. Doubt there is much air being rammed through all that.

Click to expand...

You'd be about right there.

i had those round cyclone pre filters on the top of my snorkel...

doesn't have the ram air effect, but it catches so much of the dust and bugs before it evens hits the filter.

Peter ST_R said:

I also think the ram air effect is bull too. 2-3m of pipe and a number of 90 and 180 degree bends to push air through before the filter. Doubt there is much air being rammed through all that.

Click to expand...

Lets look at it in reverse then.
If air cant be forced down all that pipe and bends as you say,
then what hope has the engine drawing air in.

Now I'm not saying the ram air effect with a snorkel is true,
as I believe more air is being drawn in by the engine than is forced down to the engine.

If your snorkel has the 'scoop' style top like mine, I would be willing to bet there is positive pressure in the airbox, rather than a vacuum (at driving speeds obviously). Therefor regardless how much or little 'Ram Air' effect it has, there is at least some positive pressure there. I guess once it has to fight with the air filter it will rely on the vaccuum of the engine to suck it through though, so any ram air effect could be lost.

With the turbocharger in the middle of the mix, I'm going to take a punt here:

snorkel intake ->- vacuum ->- air filter ->- vacuum ->- turbocharger ->- positive pressure ->- engine

I know that makes the turbo charger sound like a glorified vacuum cleaner and I bet if you stuck an attachment on the snorkel and ran it around the house it wouldn't do a horrible job (although you better not do a burnout on the loungeroom carpet).

For the ram air effect to have any positive interaction with the engine, the air velocity entering the head of the snorkel would have to be higher than the air velocity within the snorkel. This is easy to measure! Take the snorkel head off, place an air speed indicator over the opening and give the accelerator a squeeze. If the velocity climbs over Mach 1, you'll need a G-suit and a bloody big yellow handle between your knees to drive around and enjoy the ram air effect.

I'm betting the velocity won't be that fast, but it'll be faster than we're allowed to drive.

Old.Tony said:

F Take the snorkel head off, place an air speed indicator over the opening and give the accelerator a squeeze. If the velocity climbs over Mach 1, you'll need a G-suit and a bloody big yellow handle between your knees to drive around and enjoy the ram air effect.

Click to expand...

I'll give that a go old mate, when i get a chance and post the results,
ie: .........@ idle, .......@1000rpm. ......@2000rpm, etc.
Just for curiosities sake.

If someone does'nt beat me to it.

Krankin said:

I'll give that a go old mate, when i get a chance and post the results,
ie: .........@ idle, .......@1000rpm. ......@2000rpm, etc.
Just for curiosities sake.

If someone does'nt beat me to it.

Click to expand...

My quick numbers indicate about 10 m/s velocity through the snorkel (2.5L engine, 5000rpm, 13psi boost, 90mm snorkel).

Considering 100km/h = 27m/s there should be some ram effect but velocity pressure at 100km/h is only 460Pa or 0.067psi it is hardly worth mentioning.

Ha ha ha. Well I was just posting my results with a snorkle and not really trying to start an argument. I am not an argumentative kind of bloke lol.

As Matt mentioned I had a similar experience up at cruiser park with a gu patrol and found that even though the factory air box sucked from a point inside the inner gaurd it kept the filter at least 4 times cleaner than when the same vehicle had a snorkle on it. And that is dust/dirt not just bugs. Same thing has happened with the d40. And as I said I am not talking only of bugs etc. The filter has clogged up with a lot of gunk far quicker than before.

Don't get me wrong I always like to have a snorkle on my vehicles simply for the insurance if and when you come across some water crossing you can't avoid. I was simply putting some info out there for those who may be considering the purchase of a snorkle (which I feel is a reasonably large outlay for what it is).

Keep the experiences coming if ya feel compelled!

dec0guy said:

there should be some ram effect but velocity pressure at 100km/h .

Click to expand...

I'd agree with this, at low speeds and high engine revs the air column in front of the intake will need to be sucked in, but at high speeds the air column is providing more air than the engine consumes, therefore providing a ram effect. albeit a small ram effect, but one nonetheless.

They keep water out.
Wanna see, feel and hear a proper ram air and induction roar? Get a Kawasaki sports bike. Also eats bugs and dust and has a proper evacuation plenum chamber for rain and airborne debris.

The "ram air effect" is roughly around 0.292kPa depending on conditions. This is pissing in the wind however any positive contribution is a positive contribution. There will be a negative contribution from pipe friction and the air filter far in excess of the ram air effect. Yes it exists, no you won't notice it.

4.8GU said:

Ha ha ha. Well I was just posting my results with a snorkle and not really trying to start an argument. I am not an argumentative kind of bloke lol.

As Matt mentioned I had a similar experience up at cruiser park with a gu patrol and found that even though the factory air box sucked from a point inside the inner gaurd it kept the filter at least 4 times cleaner than when the same vehicle had a snorkle on it. And that is dust/dirt not just bugs. Same thing has happened with the d40. And as I said I am not talking only of bugs etc. The filter has clogged up with a lot of gunk far quicker than before.

Don't get me wrong I always like to have a snorkle on my vehicles simply for the insurance if and when you come across some water crossing you can't avoid. I was simply putting some info out there for those who may be considering the purchase of a snorkle (which I feel is a reasonably large outlay for what it is).

Keep the experiences coming if ya feel compelled!

Click to expand...

....sober now are we....