Are steel wheels dangerous

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justo

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Hi guys,

after a little info.... I have a set of king steel wheel on my Nav (there not centre located on the hub), I went and got a wheel alignment and balance the other day due to the shutter I was experencing, anyway the guy I took it to told me that any wheel that is not centre located on the hub is dangerous and would not pass roadworthy, the wheel studs should not be under that much stress and that the hub is designed to hold the load and that the studs on hold the wheel on, after talking to verious people I have herd cases where the studs have snaped and wheels coming free from the vehicle, my question is does anyone know if this is true/common and the legalities if so, I just don't want unsafe wheels on my 4wd
any info would be appreciated

Justin
 
The holes for ant stud on a car should be centre. If they aren't the stud spacing is wrong and should be fixed for free. I have heard cases of studs shearing off but I don't know what from.
 
I think there's been some sort of crossed wires somewhere.

The primary difference between steel and alloy wheels is in weight. Alloy is lighter and the wheel is supposed to respond faster to terrain changes (which is a polite term for 'another friggin pothole'). Steel, being heavier, has more momentum of its own and thus takes greater effort to change direction - therefore longer time to react or slower response.

All that said, I don't recall there being a huge difference in my wheels when I changed an alloy with a flat out for the steel spare.

As for offsets etc - if you're using Nissan-supplied rims, then you're using the wheels that were designed for those hubs & studs. If the holes are offset so that the wheel wasn't centrally located on the axle you'd really notice it while driving - the car will drive like a martini in a Bond movie, and you'd feel like Carsson Kressley and all his mates were hiding under your seat.
 
Crossed wire indeed.....Both posts above are incorrect or misunderstood
ALL WHEELS should locate on the hub as this is what bears the load and that is what your tyre fitter is eluding to. The studs are only meant to hold the wheel against the hub and sustain lateral forces. The studs should not support the weight. Thats what the shoulder machined into the hub and the inner diameter of the wheel are supposed to do.
 
All the torque is driven through the studs. As far as I know 99% of wheels are centered by the wheel studs???

This is why the nuts are tapered.


I think the torque driven through the studs would far exceeds the weight bearing load of the vehicle.
 
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The studs meet up fine but there is a gap around the hub so all the weight is on the studs, and I believe that is the issue with safty.
 
The centre of the wheel should match in diameter to the machined edge on the hub otherwise the studs are taking the load and they are not designed for that.
Cant find a relevant picture but if the wheel centre measures 110mm ID and the hub shoulder measures 100mm OD then you have the wrong wheel fitted.
 
I understand now. Still its the wrong fitment for ur car. The rim should fit over the hub lip tightly not a gap around it. As for them being centre around the hub does this mean all rims should be 0 offset? Cause that is centre.
 
The term is hub-centric and our trucks are meant to have hub-centric wheels.
I have aftermarket alloys and have spacers to basically fill in the gap between the hub of the wheel and the hub of the axle. granted mine are only plastic but they have been checked by an egineer and trust me if he had issues he would have said something. In fact he bought the same wheels.

From Wikipedia

The centerbore of a wheel is the size of the hole in the back of the wheel that centers it over the mounting hub of the car. Some factory wheels have a centerbore that matches exactly with the hub to reduce vibration by keeping the wheel centered. Wheels with the correct centerbore to the car they will be mounted on are known as hubcentric. Hubcentric wheels take the stress off the lug nuts, reducing the job of the lug nuts to center the wheel to the car. Wheels that are not hubcentric are known as lugcentric, as the job of centering is done by the lug nuts assuming they are properly torqued down.

Centerbore on aftermarket wheels must be equal to or greater than that of the hub, otherwise the wheel cannot be mounted on the car. Many aftermarket wheels come with "hubcentric rings" that lock or slide into the back of the wheel to adapt a wheel with a larger centerbore to a smaller hub.[3] These adapters are usually made of plastic but also in aluminum.
 
Like Aido said

again from Wiki

The offset, measured in millimeters, can be negative or positive, and is the distance from the hub-mounting surface to the rim's true centerline. A positive offset means the hub-mounting surface is closer to the outside edge of the wheel, i.e. the wheel wraps around the hub and brake hardware more deeply; a negative offset means the hub-mounting surface is closer to the inside edge of the wheel and wheel sticks outwards more than inwards.

When selecting aftermarket wheels, a wheel with too little positive offset will be closer to edge of the fender, and one with too much positive offset will tuck inside the fender and be closer to the suspension components. Wheel width, offset and tire size all determine the way a particular wheel/tire combination will work on a given car. Offset also affects the scrub radius of the steering and it is advisable to stay within the limits allowed by the vehicle manufacturer. Because wheel offset changes the lever-arm length between the center of the tire and the centerline of the steering knuckle, the way bumps, road imperfections and acceleration and braking forces are translated to steering torques (bump-steer, torque-steer, etc) will change depending on wheel offset. Likewise, the wheel bearings will see increased thrust loads if the wheel centerline is moved away from the bearing centerline.
 
I still say that the studs take all the weight of the car, Unless the spigot is a tapered fit to the wheel, then it is not carrying any load. A 3000kg truck / 24 studs is a measly 125kg each, miles below their shear point.
 
I have to agree to a degree.I know that the stud holes with the 60 dgree taper are designed to place the wheel in an exact position to the mounting surface however I was told that our trucks are hubcentric by SpeedyWheels Aus so my new wheels run the 60 degree taper as well as the hubcentric rings
 
Plastic but its supposedly a high density plastic thats very strong.
To me they are just annoying rings i have to get off the brakes when I change wheels.

Thinking back to old mags etc we never ran flash spacers etc it was just that shitty job of trying to install those long shank mag nuts that were a pain in the butt.
I can see the point of running hubcentric rings on a machined wheel or basically any mag wheel but on a stamped wheel they usually arent that accurate with anything apart from the stud holes that are machined in some way so they are exactly in the right place
 
well fellas here are some images of my brand new kings rims and the centric thingo is out by 5mm all round. see in pictures

SDC12976.jpg


SDC12977.jpg


i will be ringing my local dealer to see whther this is right or wrong.
 
im with jase, iv ran plenty of rims on different track cars that didnt necessarily hug the hub, and even with the stresses of flying around a track, i never had a problem, the only time iv broken studs is caused from kicking the clutch at over 100km/h to get sideways.
 
Can'o'worms.

This is one branch of the rabbit hole that is bolted joints.

What the OP has is a set of wheels designed for the spigot diameter of a Toyota. Nissans have a smaller spigot diameter. The vast majority of aftermarket wheels are made to fit a Toyota, and a spacer is what Nissan owners are stuck with.

In initial design, the spigot is to carry the radial load; in fact Toyota's OEM steel wheels are convex around the spigot, when the lug nuts are torqued down, the wheel deforms elastically and the centrebore clamps the spigot.

Another mode of load grounding not mentioned here is the friction force between the wheel and the hub, which is substantial.

However, that's not to say the wheel studs alone won't work adequately; some end users abuse vehicles extensively and then try to cover it up and make a warranty claim, so these vehicles are usually overdesigned in key areas as it's cheaper in the long run.

To understand the loading scenario the wheel studs face, research Mohr's circle and von Mises stress. The lug nuts are initially torqued up, inducing a tensile stress in the wheel studs, and then the studs are loaded in shear by the vehicle. As the dynamic vehicle exerts lateral, radial and shear loads on the studs, the stress condition hovers around inside the perimeter of the Mohr's circle. Where the OP refers to wheels coming off, the likely cause is the tyre fitters using their rattle guns to overtighten the lug nuts to within an inch of their life, which is what always happens; this moves the stress condition right out towards the edge of the circle; then a little bit of shear load, and suddenly the condition is outside the circle and you have a tensile failure and everybody goes "hey it's because the wheel wasn't located on the spigot!". Partially true but not the full story.

As for the intent of the OP, you'd have no issue getting a RWC with such wheels. There are many Nissans (and other non-Toyota vehicles) on the road in the same position, including my own. You just have to use your brains when fitting your wheels, IE. don't use or allow the use of a rattle gun, tighten in a 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6 pattern, and retighten after driving the vehicle a few metres down the driveway to ensure the tapers are seated, and look up the correct torque and figure out what that would feel like, for me it's my weight through my shoulder on the end of my wheel brace. Buy some of those plastic spacers for extra security. A cop will never pull you up on such an issue. Safe travels.
 
Hi guys,

after a little info.... I have a set of king steel wheel on my Nav (there not centre located on the hub), I went and got a wheel alignment and balance the other day due to the shutter I was experencing, anyway the guy I took it to told me that any wheel that is not centre located on the hub is dangerous and would not pass roadworthy, the wheel studs should not be under that much stress and that the hub is designed to hold the load and that the studs on hold the wheel on, after talking to verious people I have herd cases where the studs have snaped and wheels coming free from the vehicle, my question is does anyone know if this is true/common and the legalities if so, I just don't want unsafe wheels on my 4wd
any info would be appreciated

Justin

Your wheel aligner is absolutely correct, the hole in the center of the rim is supposed to locate on the hub diameter, thus taking the load and the studs hold the rim in place. The taper on the nuts and coresponding taper in the rim are designed to add friction and therefore help keep the nut tight. As is your car is unroadworthy just because some people do it dosen't make it right, and I would not drive a car on the road like that..
 

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