D40 Snapping in half

JLA said:

I suppose there are abuse situations where you could try to make it look like it is a warranty claim. In my case I showed Nissan the corrosion two weeks after purchase.

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that would be a genuine because theres no way a new vehicle is going to get corrosion in two weeks.
but genuine cases would be a minority.
you only have to ask the insurance companies about the amount of false claims they get after storms etc. there is a large amount of people who try it on.
the curse being is it hides the genuine cases where there might actually be a manufacturing problem.

I read an article about load carrying capabilities of 4WD utes. It said that utes were not designed to run at full load all of the time. They are designed to be loaded up, deliver the load and unload. So for much of it's life a ute carries little load.
The article also suggested that even without exceeding the maximum load ratings - if you keep your ute loaded eventually the chassis will crack - regardless of make.
This startled me a bit as I have a steel bullbar and side rails, rear drawers, battery, fridge, fuel I am getting close to max load (300Kg to go is the leanest load I can manage now).
For trips where I can I will take a trailer and load it with the recovery gear. Drive to the conditions should be OK I hope.

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i think you can add to that is the type of use and the expectations of utes has changed over the years. at the moment ford ranger is the single biggest selling vehicle here.
utes have become big cars.
a lot more power, more comfort, all the mod cons, etc
but unlike a car there is plenty of room to pile tons, literally tons, of gear in.
trouble is many people have no mechanical sympathy. they will load them to the max (and then some), drive flat out and pound the crap out of them.
then winge and complain when it breaks in half.


as far as trailer goes don't forget the load derating for the trailer.

Old.Tony said:

I think Tweak'e's statement does allow for genuine issues too, but I tend to agree - there's going to be more than a few people who have caused a problem on their own ute (perhaps even unwittingly) where the symptoms are at least similar to those experienced by the UK owners and seek to have that remedied based on the precedent set by Nissan UK. It would be pretty difficult to produce statistics proving that some people will try to BS their way out of a situation!

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remember the case on here with the D22 with broken chassis?
i think its the only case i've heard about but that person made a huge ruckus about D22's being defective.
by the sounds of it they had fitted aftermarket suspension then pounded it offroad.

As we all know every make has bent chassis, Triton's are very bad compared to most. The problem is driver error and poor loading nothing else!. Yes there is the rust issue and perhaps the Pom's are right, the quality of the welds and steel are nothing like my D21 was 500k and living on every island and beach for 12 years and not a speck of rust.

Wonder if it had anything to do with the flooding in Thailand in 2011, Nissan claim their factory wasn't affected but maybe they sent affected parts to Spain.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...k=b8fd70ab9a4e62bc9755b0e58c048238-1487486246
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2011/_STORY/111104-01-e.html

Accepting that we're not able to use a vehicle full time at or below max rated load is bollocks. Sounds a bit like something a person with interests in the industry would say
Before the modern ute explosion, up till about 2004 ish, all the major Japanese made utes ; triton, hilux, navara, bravo, courier and rodeo could handle nearly a tonne on the back day in day out no sweat
We have a 1986 triton still charging, it will take a tonne no worries, stock 30 year old suspension
Put a tonne on my brothers ute, a 2012 triton and its nearly sitting on the rear bump stops, nose in the air
Some will say its comfort over load ability but that aint kosher either
Japanese steel compared to thai steel might be a big part of the equation..

Rumpig said:

Wonder if it had anything to do with the flooding in Thailand in 2011, Nissan claim their factory wasn't affected but maybe they sent affected parts to Spain.

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This ties in with something I was told by Fair Trading, that the Spanish vehicles had their chassis built in Thailand. Also the flood in Thailand flooded the chassis. It does look possible that they did use damaged chassis to build my vehicle.

I don't think the current lineup of utes are incapable of handling the load, but the manufacturers have changed the construction of the utes based on the methods they've used to market the vehicles.

30 years ago the ute range might have taken a tonne in the back without trouble, but unloaded they had a harsher ride. You could also feel the engines through the driveline and the seats weren't designed for long stays.

Bring on the idea that "people who drive cars can drive utes" because a double-cab ute can carry as many people as a typical family sedan. Why aren't these sedan drivers buying double cab utes? Because the ride's too harsh and the wife and kids don't like it, plus the performance isn't there. However, put some plush seats and soft suspension and you've gone a long way to getting those families out of their sedans. Add a dual mass flywheel to smooth out the power pulses of the engine and start putting in other features like electric windows, heated seats ... now the double-cab ute is a serious contender against the sedan.

As a bonus, rate the thing to tow 3T - that's 700Kg more than the Falcon and a whole 900kg more than the Commodore. Now, those larger caravans (also highly appealing to family units because they have 3x bunk beds, toilet+shower, queen bed for parents and weigh 2.5T+, out of reach of Commodore/Falcon) which are normally towed by big Land Cruisers etc can now be towed by the family - in a car that hasn't cost them half what the Land Cruisers cost.

We've seen a rise in popularity of caravans with slide-out sections - a 25ft Jayco Silverline with slideout weighs up to 2.9T (empty), thus exceeding the 3T load - bring on the 3.5T limit (400Kg allowance in load).

What the dealers don't say up front with these new utes is that the rear springs aren't rated for much more than about 150Kg. That's rather easy to exceed too - dealers will happily add on a canopy (say 180Kg), then you get the dual battery system (40Kg), Engel (20Kg empty), a few tools (20Kg), a generator (Honda Eu20i = 21Kg) - you're well and truly over the rear suspension's limit and the towball weight (25ft Silverline = 250Kg) wasn't even included!

i have to agree with old.tony here.
the way utes are used has changed.
90% never go offroad, i expect a lot do not carry much load.
suspension is made for their main market, city folk who drive them like cars.

the other thing is engine power. they have gone way up.
compare my D23 to what we had when i first started this work, a nissan 720. ironically a 2.3 liter diesel. but unlike the d23's 2.3 diesel, it didn't have large amounts of power.
you put a ton on those old things and your first gear up the hills.
they where so slow, people didn't actually load them to the max a whole lot.

And sadly poor driving skills and overloading is the reason most of these duel cabs are breaking their chassis. Look how far the weight is behind the wheels and these clowns pull 3 tonne of van through washouts ect and expect it to last. Got to agree with Tony regarding the change of suspension over the years, it's a very valid point.

Yep all true but they're still rated to carry a certain weight, that in reality they are unable to actually carry
Thats the part that gets my goat
Its a bit like the fuel consumption figure stickers that we all know are BS

^ All in the sake of scoring more sales. ACCC don't touch them. Fair Trading leave 'em be too. It's too difficult to chase them down for technicalities like the load rating - my own 2009 D40 has a GVM of 2980Kg and a kerbside weight of 1920Kg, so technically I ought to be able to carry just over a tonne. Naturally you have to change the suspension so that it's not a drive-home-on-the-bump-stops trip, but that change shouldn't affect the weights too much.

That's technically. In practicality, I didn't buy my ute to just carry loads, I want to take it off road (bullbar, winch, taller suspension, sliders), carry some goodies in the back (canopy, dual battery, Engel fridge, Honda generator), and tow my caravan long distances (tow hitch, long range tank, jerry cans).

I've compromised. I can fit about 52 bags of chicken manure in the back (yes, counted them myself, checked by the seller who was waiting for me to pay for it) but I have to empty the car to do it. When towing, if I want to take the generator, I generally forgo the jerry cans or vice versa.

As for fuel consumption figures ... don't get me started!

The average person expects it to go the other way, full load no worries and a bit over say several hundred Kgs OK too.
After all imposed limits alway have a margin of safety.
Well apparently not.

Old.Tony said:

^
I've compromised. I can fit about 52 bags of chicken manure in the back (yes, counted them myself, checked by the seller who was waiting for me to pay for it)

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I assume you leave the chicken manure at home when you go camping!

JLA said:

The average person expects it to go the other way, full load no worries and a bit over say several hundred Kgs OK too.
After all imposed limits alway have a margin of safety.
Well apparently not.

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thats a good point.
most things are designed and built with a safety factor.
like your bow shackles, 3 ton WWL but as its something like a 9:1 safty factor it will handle over 20 ton.
more everyday stuff may have a 2:1 safty factor. rated for 300kg, will handle 600kg.

but consumer items sometimes work the other way. rated for 300kg but built for 250kg and they replace under warranty any that do happen to break.
theres also the 5% rule, ie they should have 5% of the product failing. if less than that fails then its built to well and can be made cheaper.

tweak'e said:

theres also the 5% rule, ie they should have 5% of the product failing. if less than that fails then its built to well and can be made cheaper.

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I think that nails it.

The manufacturers could offer two suspension grades, like comfort and heavy duty
So people that want to use these "workhorses" for actual work can do so without chucking 4 brand new springs and shocks in the bin when they buy a new ute
With the number of 4wd utes they're selling these days thered be a strong market for it youd think

Isn't that what they do? The poverty pack is designed for work, full load etc while the top of the range model has a softer ride with lower load limit and all the bells and whistle.

GunMentalGrey said:

Isn't that what they do? The poverty pack is designed for work, full load etc while the top of the range model has a softer ride with lower load limit and all the bells and whistle.

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not that i have seen.
afaik only one set of springs.

Czechmate said:

The manufacturers could offer two suspension grades, like comfort and heavy duty
So people that want to use these "workhorses" for actual work can do so without chucking 4 brand new springs and shocks in the bin when they buy a new ute
With the number of 4wd utes they're selling these days thered be a strong market for it youd think

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yes/no. it is a good idea. would love to see an improved single (d23) which they could market to tradies.
however a big cost to manufactures is storage of spare parts. its another part to keep in stock for only a small amount of customers.

but i think they are missing a golden opportunity at up-selling at the dealer level.
the could be selling better tires, wheels, suspension, bars etc.

tweak'e said:

but i think they are missing a golden opportunity at up-selling at the dealer level.
the could be selling better tires, wheels, suspension, bars etc.

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Different dealers must do things differently. I was offered the choice of nothing, a nudge bar, alloy bar, Nissan bar or deluxe ARB bar. I had the choice of a Nissan tow hitch or a Hayman Reece tow hitch.

I don't recall any discussion about suspension, but then we did want to try the car on its stock suspension before modifying that (thinking that it can't be that bad). That was not a good decision, although it would probably have cost considerably more than the $2200 or so that I paid to upgrade the suspension (through ARB) myself later.

We even discussed (and accepted) the upgrade of the in-dash stereo to a Pioneer system. Not quite happy with Pioneer, they are underpowered CPUs and my unit ran Windows CE - at times I'd be 3 blocks past the turn I had to take. Thankfully it wasn't a navigation system like this one or I'd have taken it back to Nissan and punched the dealer's lights out.

I now have the chassis strengthening plates fitted. The pic is from their fitting instructions. This is the passenger side, right side of pic is rear of vehicle.
The plate goes from behind the rear axle to beyond the tub mount. Why does the passenger side crack before the drivers side? The shockies go one forward and one backwards on the rear axle. On the passenger side it attaches to the chassis at the tub mount, and that is where the weak point is.

Any welding to repair cracks in the chassis in Queensland has to have a chassis repair mod plate. If there are no cracks, adding the strengthening plates as a precaution also requires a chassis repair plate.
The interesting thing was that the steel had to be a certain composition (no harder than the steel in the chassis) and the welds done in a certain way by a certified welder to comply.
This means you cannot simply weld in a bit of old barby plate and all is OK. If you import a strengthening kit from overseas your local certifier doesn't know the composition of the steel and may not be able to have it legally fitted in Queensland.

They also seal and rustproof the affected area of the chassis inside and out.
Next job is attending to the rust inside the chassis rails.
There is little point i waiting for Nissan to rectify their manufacturing mistakes.

Superior Engineering supplied the plates and did the work:
https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/chassis-repair-plate-spainish-models-21680