Clutch or injector problem?

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kwilko

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I really don't know where to post this.

My vehicle is a 2009 Nissan Navara D40, 6 speed manual 4WD 4Dr 2.5 diesel.

please bear with as I'm going to describe a noise that my local Nissan dealer can't diagnose.
We both agree on the existence of this noise - but what it is as yet is unexplained; they are now sending the vehicle to Bangkok for their "engineers" to sort out.

However I'd like some input form outside Nissan as to what it might be - I don't want Nissan to come back and tell me there is nothing they can do......I think they might be playing for time here or even trying to avoid costly work whilst under warranty.

So here goes......
essentially there is a "ticking" sound. This runs in sync with the engine and is only audible when the throttle is depressed - to any extent big or small.

Under hard acceleration the ticking becomes louder and with the pedal to the floor a rather disturbing "thwacking" sound occurs. This sound is strongest under acceleration with your foot right down especially in 5th gear. (I'm not even 100% sure the 2 noises are related or emanating form the same source).

My local dealer's service dept has made several attempts - in vain - to eradicate the sound, finally announcing they couldn't do it and are sending the car to Bkk for 3 days.

The mechanics who have test driven it with me seem to be convinced it is a clutch problem - I'm not 100% convinced and think it might be injector/common-rail or even turbo.

If you have any ideas, I'd be most grateful as I'd like to be in a position to make an educated assessment of Nissans diagnosis when it comes in a couple of days.

Look forward to hearing your suggestions.
 
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Hi Kwilko
From your description it could be the same clutch rattle that the Spanish trucks have had. Do a search on here for rattles in throttle and clutch. Mine was very annoying and occured at the same times as you describe. I always thought it was pipework contacting somewhere. Turned out (according to the Nissan mechs) that the clutch slave cylinder dampener spring was the problem. I was told they wound all the play/adjustment out of the spring. This solved my problem and improved the clutch feel.
Good luck if your rattle is a brand new mystery.
:welcome:
 
"Clutch slave dampener spring" - That would seem to fit - the mechanic was talking about the oil pipe for the clutch.

All conversations about the car are conducted in Thai which makes it a little difficult at times.
I'll mention the spring - in Thai it is probably something like....
"Cut say dampen sapping"

Thanks!
 
If it's in time with engine RPM then it's obviously forward of the gearbox input shaft. A misaligned (through failure, fault or poor installation) of the thrust bearing will do this (the thrust bearing pushes against the pressure plate and disengages the clutch).

A broken, poorly tempered (though manufacturing fault or excessive heat) spring in the pressure plate could cause this sort of sound.

A misaligned, missing, broken or otherwise imperfect spring inside the dual mass flywheel can cause the flywheel itself to make this noise.

Any of the above faults could cause the car to shudder, judder or vibrate excessively.

If it's injectors - and they can be noisy - the noise should quieten as the injectors warm up. They should not cause excessive vibration.

The only other things are so obvious a blind man could see them. Radiator fan clutch not engaging properly, radiator fan impacting the radiator or the housing would be a start. You might also hear this sort of noise if there's a chunk taken out of the fan belt.

Good luck with it, don't forget to come back and tell us what it was!
 
Nissan called me yesterday - they are going to fit a new clutch. (THe DMF clutches on these D40s are a new thing to me and although I've peered at the diagrams, I haven't got my head round them yet)

Problem 1 - the parts will take 3 weeks to come from Tokyo
Problem 2 - we won't know if this solves the problem until after the clutch is fitted.




In the meantime I've been advised I can continue to drive the vehicle - however I'm cancelling my proposed trip to Chiang Mai next month.

THanks for the input - I'll keep you posted....

PS - there was no appreciable extra vibration coming through to me whilst driving.
 
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I hope they replace the flywheel, not just the clutch. A dual mass flywheel looks like this:

planetary_DMF_SACHS_dual-mass-flywheel_-ZF.jpg


and there is some good information (regardless of the spelling mistakes) on the page this image came from.
 
yes - know what they look like - but not how they work.

I'll ask about the flywheel - that'll confuse them all.
 
The front plate and the back of the flywheel are separate. The engine (connected to the back part seen in the picture) turns and has harmonic vibrations as any combustion engine would have - slight variances in rotational speed. The front face is connected via those springs. As the rotational vibration happens, those springs absorb the vibration and what you get on the clutch face is a nice smooth rotation.

Problems occur when the springs distemper (lose their springiness, through heat usually) or break, foul up from debris or the mounts for the springs break.
 
Update - A slight misunderstanding about fitting a new clutch - they fitted ....well as far as I can make out some new oil pipes?

It seems that the louder "thwacking sound has gone - I'm not 100% sure of that but I couldn't make it happen on a short test drive accompanied by their mechanic.
However the "strong" ticking is still discernible.....the mechanic agreed on that - for it to be most obvious, one needs to be at speed and with the foot flat down, preferably in 5th.

we went back to the garage and all looked a bit disappointed - so I've agreed to drive it about a bit and they are looking for another 4WD model to compare it with (!?!?!?).
Basically they now think injector pump - what I can't understand is why the so-called "experts" in Bkk didn't do a full range of tests - they obviously haven't done much apart from assume it was the clutch........ hardly an engineers approach.
it looks as if we are going through a cycle of thinking of a part and replacing it in the hope that it might stop the noise........I suppose if they keep it up long enough they might replace the whole car bit by bit?
 
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Update - dam I just lost a whole post!

THey didn't fit a new clutch - it was clutch parts - oil lines?

Anyhow it has completely worked - I couldn't make the "thwacking" sound return but I still get the strong ticking. This is best achieved at speed with one's foot flat to the floor - preferably in 5th gear.

The mechanic who accompanied me one the test drive agrees with me - on going back to the dealership they all looked pretty down and then suggested "pump injector"?

Well I suggested that right at the start 0 so what I find so galling is that they sent the vehicle to Bkk for an "expert" to look at it but they obviously did nothing more than examine the clutch. - Not an engineers approach.
It looks now as if we are entering a cycle of thinking of a part and changing it in the hope it might solve the problem.......I guess if they keep at it long enough they'll replace the whole car piece by piece ..... and then find a cricket living under my throttle pedal!
 
Sorry! two posts! - I thought I'd lost the first one - well I'll leave 'em both there and you can have twice the fun putting in your three-ha'pence..........
 
uk d40 has had injector noise isue and nissan are replacing them (two at a time weirdly £1100 each may be reason) under warranty vw also having inj probs
 
What is so annoying is that if that is the case - why didn't the "experts" in Bkk recognise this or at least consider it???
 
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hello k wilko, mate i have the same prob, i can tell you it is the clutch fluid pipe that rattles, at a certin rpm range they re : peositioned my pipe all good, but as you can see from my latest posting the noise is back, ive just spoken to my mechanic, he stated its unusal for the rattle noise to come back, but he recons the piping has moved again, so its back to the dearler to get fixed i hope, :devil:
 
Yes - relieved to hear someone had a similar experience........as I said the "thwack thwack" sound appears to have gone - I'll keep an ear out in case it comes back.

However I think the "tick-tick-tick" is possibly an injector.

THe problem is although I have a basic mechanical knowledge, it doesn't extend to and I don't have experience of Nissan's mechanical quirks. However I think it is reasonable to expect that a Nissan dealership should have....but they seem to see problems as single issues and not a holistic thing.
 
Now I would say we have about a 99% solved problem.

THe clutch fluid pipe fixed the "thwack-thwack" sound.

Re the "tick-tick" - the local Nissan service manager rang me last week to come in and have a new "suction control vale"....this was done yesterday and the "ticking" has now all but disappeared.

Any other noise left I would guess is within the norms for this vehicle - I shall drive it about for a bit and see.
 
can't help you there

I still have some ticking but it is not in the same circumstances - I'll go back one more time later this week and take the mechanic for a drive again.
 

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