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mitch92

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G'day

Just chasing from people who they are insured with for their motor cycles, as well as opinions on the following bikes.

Am looking at either the kawasaki ninja 250R, Honda CBR250, or the yamaha YZF-R15.

I know that the yammie is smaller, but it is also cheap hence why i am considering it. I have always liked the ninja's...infact have always LOVED the ninja's. The honda looks good too, but i was wondering people opinions on the three.

Cheers
Mitch
 
y a 250? learner? if i had to choose one of those i would go the honda, im guessing your looking at a 90ish year model since they stopped production of them around that time
 
oh ok, didnt know that lol, honestly i would steer clear of the 125, my mates kawasaki 650rl broke down and getting fixed under warranty, they gave him a cbr125 as a loaner and i had a go and it has NO power at all, flat out it goes about 80km/h lol, bit of a step down from my cbr600f4i, go one of the 250's, i would go the kawasaki based on looks since the cbr is back, if money permits, y not a 650rl or gsx650f, very powerful learner bikes, not sure if their learner legal in qld but in nsw they are, secound hand could be a bit cheaper than one of the 250's new
 
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main reason the 50's is cheap...quite cheap. Yea i have already decided against the yammie. I only weigh 60kgs, but i live outa town where it is a 100km/h speed limit back into town, so need a bike capable of that.

I personally do think the kawasaki has it over the honda for looks...hmmmm
 
The Ninja 250 and the CBR250R are both great learner bikes, the Ninja is a little faster at the top end but the CBR has the option of anti-lock brakes.

My better half is trying to decide between those two at the moment actually.

As for the 125? They're just to small for most people, unless you're under 60kg stay away.
 
in my honest opinion i think its better to get a bike that will last a while, you will want a bigger one before you know it lol, you will get sick of how high a 250 revs at doing 100 km/h, i think its up 9000 from memory (i had a gpx 250 a while ago on my l's) and the constant vibration is quite irritating, but each to their own i suppose
 
i may turn into a one poster as im looking at a navara d21 4x4 diesel (keen for it, but waiting for a testdrive to see how slow it really is.)
was just browsing the site too see peoples experience with them. but saw this thread and decided i should add my opinion/experience

anyway i live for bikes i have an wr250 for the dirt, and a vtr250 for the road (still on lams) i work as a parts interpreter for a leading melbourne motorcycle dealer.

BIGGEST THING FOR A FIRST BIKE IS DONT BUY NEW!!!!
you WILL drop it, scratch it, skid it etc.... it takes time to learn how to ride a motorcycle and dirt experience means next to nothing on the road,
is a completly different riding style and teqnique more dirt riders, fail the test then people who have never touched a bike. dirt riding doesnt help you to keep the bike upright while emergency braking (using the front & rear brakes) while an idiot in an falcodore doesnt see you and merges ontop of you, forcing you into the gutter.
your first bike will get damaged... accept it and save the new bike experience for when you have the teqniqe and experience

stay clear of the 90s cbr250's. they are a great ride, but almost all are grey imports - so mechanics will refuse to work on them as we cant get parts. they have all been ridden by learners who want a fast bike (so flogged for 90% of their k's) and most have been dropped or fixed several times.

the old ninjas are simmilar but a little better.

have a look for cb250r hornet, this is a naked bike running the engine from the cbr250, they are usually looked after better. but they are rare and an import.
another bike thats simmilar is the gsf250 bandit, but make shure it is australian delivered not an import


otherwise look at the honda vtr250, it is one of the best learner bikes on the market. and an early example will cost around the same as a cbr thats 10yrs older (or more).

if your budget extends further look for a cb400 or a gs500 these bikes are probably the best lams bikes out there. they are unresticted and just fall in the power to weight. they will last you past the lams period, many choose to keep them for a significant time afterwards....

but if you want real performance go for a vfr400/rvf400 these bikes are race bikes with indicators. they are a prick to get parts for, a prick to work on. but they will blast past 600's in the corner and wont do too bad on the straights.
they are an amazingly good handling bike..... which is why most have been raced (well they were bought over as race bikes before the lams laws, and were the main bike in the 400cc class)

hope this helps

p.s. the new ninja is the best of the lot, the cbr reflects its price in its cheap manufacturing and relys on the brand image for performance imo. but hyosungs (once you get part their reputation - which working with them all day reflects the owners not the bikes..... indian and asian students who either cant ride thus constantly replace mirrors and indicator, or who dont want to spend a dollar on upkeep) they are not that bad of a bike, with impressive quality for their price.... just dont expect the same performance as other sportbikes
 
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otherwise look at the honda vtr250, it is one of the best learner bikes on the market. and an early example will cost around the same as a cbr thats 10yrs older (or more).
Click to expand...

The problem with the VTR250 is that for a reasonably new & low km bike (07 models with ~10K) people are asking what it is brand new for a CBR250/Ninja.

but if you want real performance go for a vfr400/rvf400 these bikes are race bikes with indicators. they are a prick to get parts for, a prick to work on.
Click to expand...

The problem with these is they are quite old, and as you said prick to get parts for etc.

I am wanting to buy something as close to new as possible. Yes i know it will be dropped, but i honestly don't mind, it is part of learning. 250's are cheap, and the bigger capacity bikes in the same price bracket are old and with much higher km's.
 
Geoff3DMN said:
The Ninja 250 and the CBR250R are both great learner bikes, the Ninja is a little faster at the top end but the CBR has the option of anti-lock brakes.

My better half is trying to decide between those two at the moment actually.

As for the 125? They're just to small for most people, unless you're under 60kg stay away.
Click to expand...

Yeah i have already gone against the 125 since its so small.

I would be interested to hear what gets decided on for your other half if possible?? And also the reasons why.
 
mitch92 said:
I would be interested to hear what gets decided on for your other half if possible?? And also the reasons why.
Click to expand...

I'm not expecting her to make a quick choice, she's already got a scooter which she's riding now (although it won't travel at highway speeds when I'm riding on my bike so she wants to update).

She's been tossing up between these two options for about 2 months now :)

It's tempting to recommend a 600 but many learners find the weight and size intimidating and the argument about 'upgrading' applies almost as much to 500's and 600's as it does to 250's (based on sales/upgrade statistics) and 250's tend to be cheaper than most 600's.
 
spenaroo said:
you WILL drop it, scratch it, skid it etc.... it takes time to learn how to ride a motorcycle and dirt experience means next to nothing on the road,
is a completly different riding style and teqnique more dirt riders, fail the test then people who have never touched a bike. dirt riding doesnt help you to keep the bike upright while emergency braking (using the front & rear brakes) while an idiot in an falcodore doesnt see you and merges ontop of you, forcing you into the gutter.
Click to expand...
spenaroo said:
My father has owned bike shops all my life, and i like so many people I grew up racing MX on the weekends and school holidays at MX schools.

While i agree with not buying new, i have to say that the "DIRT EXPERIENCE MEANS NEXT TO NOTHING ON THE ROAD" has to be the biggest load of BS that i have ever heard full stop.

If that was really the case why is it that all our past and present MOTO GP, and super bike riders and world champs have had a huge Dirt bike background, Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan, Mat Maladin, Bayliss, Stoner, ect ect ect blah blah blah

I personally think its a huge advantage, and yes there isnt allot you can do when "some idiot in an falcodore doesnt see you and merges ontop of you" but i would say it gives you a greater awareness, and will give you a much better chance of getting away with less of an issue.

The ability to change the bikes direction quickly, stop the bike on a loose surface (never mind tar) and recover, having the rear wheel step out or the front wash out and recover takes time.

If you have been riding for years it has to be an advantage,even if its on dirt, as apposed to the person with no experience who wakes up one morning and says, im going to get a bike licence.

Actually allot of guys that race road bikes still train on dirtbikes, like speedway sliding the bike is a great way to feel where the limits are. That can also be useful on the road, Eg when its raining or a diesel spill on a bend. I would say with out a doubt if you have had experience with the bike slipping and sliding that you stand a much better chance of saving it then the person who has never felt that sort of feeling on a bike.
Click to expand...
 
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nathand22 said:
spenaroo said:
you WILL drop it, scratch it, skid it etc.... it takes time to learn how to ride a motorcycle and dirt experience means next to nothing on the road,
is a completly different riding style and teqnique more dirt riders, fail the test then people who have never touched a bike. dirt riding doesnt help you to keep the bike upright while emergency braking (using the front & rear brakes) while an idiot in an falcodore doesnt see you and merges ontop of you, forcing you into the gutter.
Click to expand...
spenaroo said:
While i agree with not buying new, i have to say that the "DIRT EXPERIENCE MEANS NEXT TO NOTHING ON THE ROAD" has to be the biggest load of BS that i have ever heard full stop.

If that was really the case why is it that all our past and present MOTO GP, and super bike riders and world champs have had a huge Dirt bike background, Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan, Mat Maladin, Bayliss, Stoner, ect ect ect blah blah blah

I personally think its a huge advantage, and yes there isnt allot you can do when "some idiot in an falcodore doesnt see you and merges ontop of you" but i would say it gives you a greater awareness, and will give you a much better chance of getting away with less of an issue.

The ability to change the bikes direction quickly, stop the bike on a loose surface (never mind tar) and recover, having the rear wheel step out or the front wash out and recover takes time.

If you have been riding for years it has to be an advantage,even if its on dirt, as apposed to the person with no experience who wakes up one morning and says, im going to get a bike licence.

Actually allot of guys that race road bikes still train on dirtbikes, like speedway sliding the bike is a great way to feel where the limits are. That can also be useful on the road, Eg when its raining or a diesel spill on a bend. I would say with out a doubt if you have had experience with the bike slipping and sliding that you stand a much better chance of saving it then the person who has never felt that sort of feeling on a bike.
Click to expand...

I agree totally, I spent 3 or 4 years on dirt bikes it helps imo, Its like the kids who grow up driving paddock bombs they already have a good idea when they start driving on the road, doesn,t make them perfect bike or car operators but it still is experience
Click to expand...
 
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I've got one of the new cbr250's, I too was tossing up between that and the ninja. The main reason I chose the cbr over the ninja was the price. When I got mine in November it was $6k ride away. I may have been able to get a ninja for the same price, but the one dealer I saw was pretty arrogant IMO.

The other reason was the cbr is efi whereas Kawasaki don't send the efi ninja to australia (there is an efi version overseas but the aus delivered ones are still carby). As for the ride, they aren't bad. Obviously they aren't the fastest bikes out there but they will still leave most cars behind off the lights. On the freeway they do the speed limit easily and still have a little bit left in them for overtaking if you need to. They do about 6500rpm at 100km/h (the speedo is 10% out like the navaras, lol, so 110km/h indicated is only 100km/h). I get around 32km/l usually, but I do mostly freeway riding with little traffic. I can probably squeeze 350km out of a tank I reckon, they are 13l apparently and I don't even think I've put more than 10l in yet and I've had it over 300km. It has a bit of vibration on the freeway from the high rpm, but with wind and traffic around you hardly notice it. Brakes are pretty decent, mine is the non ABS version but it still pulls up pretty well, although I haven't ridden it in the wet yet. I got a brand new one cause I'm planning on keeping it for while, even when I get my open license I will keep this for a while. I know I may drop it or whatever, but on your restricted license in WA you can only have 250cc for the first 12 months and people still want $6k for 2nd hand cbr's or ninja's. At least if something on this breaks under warranty I can just take it back and get them to fix it. Plus I know how its been treated from the start.

Hope that helps a bit. In saying all that, for modifiying, the ninja after market parts are a lot cheaper and there's more range because the engine has been around for so long whereas the cbr motor is still new.
 
yeah i agree most of the dirt experince means nothing is BS (i ride dirt and road, and can see many good things come from the dirt experience, also a few bad habits - stacked the bike a few times on the road from automatically leaning in and countersteering) there is great benifits from riding dirt. however i like spurting that line to new road riders, as many dirt riders think they know it all and are fine to get on an unresticted 600.... dirt is more forgiving. there is a buttload that dirt will teach you, especially in the higher levels of bike control (how many 250 riders slide the rear wheel to intiate turn in???). but for the basics i find this statement is pretty true. so has every instructor ive talked to when doing all my licencing.

you stop differently (dirt riders favour the rear brake - road riders favour the front),
you turn differently (try countersteering on dirt),
and you carry your weight differently (try a corner at speed on a road bike while leaning to the outside and tipping the bike in - cause thats how you do it on the dirt).

which is why when the learners test was first introduced many dirt riders failed, as the basics are different. does not mean they cant ride, they just take time to adapt to new habits especially braking, which is important to a new road rider. (yes the dirt riders absolutliy blitzed the slalom and slow ride)

keep in mind the statement is written to new riders, not experienced guys.

perhaps i should re-write it too,
there is alot of benefit in riding dirt, however while it builds on your confidence and bike control. it can be detrimental to a new rider on the road, as many of the basics are different. this leads to bad habits moving across and incorect riding teqnique bieng used. it may also mean you will be overconfident on your skills out on thre road and overestimate yourself. so dont ignore LAMS or rider training, as they are just as valid to you.

better??

back to the topic,
keep in mind that you will need at least 1k for gear, and comprehensive insurance is stupidly high for learners (my vtr250 is worth 3k, i pay $200 third party with close to 2k in excess. for comprehensive they wanted $1800 with the same 2k excess........ for a 3k bike)
 
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spenaroo said:
you stop differently (dirt riders favour the rear brake - road riders favour the front),
you turn differently (try countersteering on dirt),




I know this is still off topic but Spenaroo got off topic with all these tips that no one was asking for, and i just dont agree with all of it.

Ok i do see where your coming from and can also see how some people who have done some dirt riding think they are the next Casey Stoner...

HOWEVER i have never in all my years of racing dirt bikes and attending moto x schools been taught to "FAVOUR THE BACK BRAKE" in-fact its been the exact opposite!!! if im coming into a corner im using at least 70% front as its the only way to stop quickly enough after braking as late as possible.

I dont care weather you are on a push bike if you want to stop, you will stop quicker by using the front brake more then the back.... you would have to be retarded to think otherwise.

You are not one of those guys that thinks you have to skid the back wheel into a corner are you? that would be very naive and would suggest that you havent done much if any real dirt riding.

The only time i really use heaps of rear brake is actually when im hard on the gass on a rough straight as it works like traction control and stops the rear wheel from stepping out and allows the bike to remain more settled.
I dont for a second believe that it is necessary on the road.
Click to expand...
 
no i ride trails, enduro style not motocross.
so ive always been taught to avoid the front brake (both on the trails, and when doing trial riding courses), as most of the time the rear is used to control the speed and stabilise the bike, especially while going down steep muddy and rutty hills. we dont need a great amount of braking force and with the delicate control balancing act, using the front will get you into trouble quick. (and yes getting used to having the bike sideways does help when the rear skids out on the vtr, vtwin engine breaking is awesome) the only time i use the front brake is when i need to stop very quick and losing the front doesnt really matter or when i really need to feather it when coming down hardpacked rocky hills to keep the bike balanced. (of course when it safe like a hard packed trail, i use it like i would on the road) im shure there are other times i use the front too but at the moment they escape me.

ive never ridden motocross, but it seems even off-road the skills are different (i bet you have been taught to weight the outside of the peg, great in a higher speed motorcross situation. but when on the trails, weighting the inside will give you more stability and manouverability.)

and no i dont believe in skidding the rear into a corner, except for fun. but its not a bad skill to have up your sleeve (though not till your damn good on the road) in fact id rather have grip then slipping it, which is why i ride a 250 not a 450 like everyone else i ride with, what is power without control? (though the fact it weighs alot less helps as well)

(i hope i dont sound like an clueless idiot. ive only been riding seriously for around 12 months, but in that 12 months ive tried to be the best rider i can be in both skills and knowledge. and I acknowledge that alot of you will have ridden longer and have more experience. i really dont want to sound like someone who knows it all, cause i dont. i just wish to share the knowledge/experience/opinion ive gained)


now this post needs some on-topic info.

In my opinion get an man made perforated (mesh type jacket) with an inner liner. this will get you through any weather condition when paired with over-the-top-style rain gear. preferably in the form of the one-pice suits. they also offer great wind pretection. this i feel is the only jacket that works in summer, the other just get too hot. also steer clear of any water resistant stuff... it gets hot and sweaty (IT STINKS TOO)

back to off topic,
at this stage the d21 isnt looking great, yet to hear back on the roadworthy check (want to know what needs to be done before i bother with a test drive. my father and brother have already driven it and are setting it up - they found it for me, and im working... allot!)
so you may get rid of me pretty quick
 
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this could go on and on but i will end by saying that i beleive in brake control and having good feel of the brakes is more then helpful no matter what you ride or drive.

Also i am certain that you have much better feel in your fingers then you do in your foot.

A great example of this is Mic Doohan, after one of his many injuries he had his ankle fused, so he got the rear brake put up on the handle bars, he then said that he could not believe how much better he was able to brake and how much more feel he had for the rear of the bike.

Any way good luck with it all.
over and out.
 
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bods said:
I've got one of the new cbr250's, I too was tossing up between that and the ninja. The main reason I chose the cbr over the ninja was the price. When I got mine in November it was $6k ride away. I may have been able to get a ninja for the same price, but the one dealer I saw was pretty arrogant IMO.

The other reason was the cbr is efi whereas Kawasaki don't send the efi ninja to australia (there is an efi version overseas but the aus delivered ones are still carby). As for the ride, they aren't bad. Obviously they aren't the fastest bikes out there but they will still leave most cars behind off the lights. On the freeway they do the speed limit easily and still have a little bit left in them for overtaking if you need to. They do about 6500rpm at 100km/h (the speedo is 10% out like the navaras, lol, so 110km/h indicated is only 100km/h). I get around 32km/l usually, but I do mostly freeway riding with little traffic. I can probably squeeze 350km out of a tank I reckon, they are 13l apparently and I don't even think I've put more than 10l in yet and I've had it over 300km. It has a bit of vibration on the freeway from the high rpm, but with wind and traffic around you hardly notice it. Brakes are pretty decent, mine is the non ABS version but it still pulls up pretty well, although I haven't ridden it in the wet yet. I got a brand new one cause I'm planning on keeping it for while, even when I get my open license I will keep this for a while. I know I may drop it or whatever, but on your restricted license in WA you can only have 250cc for the first 12 months and people still want $6k for 2nd hand cbr's or ninja's. At least if something on this breaks under warranty I can just take it back and get them to fix it. Plus I know how its been treated from the start.

Hope that helps a bit. In saying all that, for modifiying, the ninja after market parts are a lot cheaper and there's more range because the engine has been around for so long whereas the cbr motor is still new.
Click to expand...

I heard the kawasaki has a bit less vibration at those higher speeds, however not yet experienced it. It will still be a while before purchase, but definitely starting to look around
 
mitch92 said:
I heard the kawasaki has a bit less vibration at those higher speeds, however not yet experienced it. It will still be a while before purchase, but definitely starting to look around
Click to expand...

It probably does, the difference being the ninja is a twin and the cbr is only a single cylinder. Good luck whichever one you choose and have fun on it
 

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