KA24DE engine conversion

Gday blokes. Here's the story.

I have an 89 Nav with the pokey Z24 motor. It has served its life well as it has 370,000 km on the original motor without being opened. It still runs well, only has the occasional miss on very cold mornings. It doesnt burn oil or blow smokey out the pipe. But its gutless and THIRSTY. About 18L/100km

I have had a bit of a read here and on other sites and I recon the way to go is the KA24DE motor. Only thing is, I dunno much about them.

What vehicles did they come in? How do they respond to turbos, and how reliable are they? What else is available for these motors as far as performance goes. I have been told they came in the 200sx, is this correct?

Most importantly, what would I expect to pay for a motor in good condition?

Cheers, Sam

Don't get one from a FWD car unless you're after a bit of a challenge. KA24DEs were used in some Navaras (and perhaps Pathfinders - not so sure). You want one from a 4WD as well. That way, it slots right in - same engine mounts, same gearbox.
You'll have to muck around with the wiring a bit, and add in a high pressure fuel pump, but that's not real hard.
I replaced my Z with a KA24E from a 2WD Navara, and I had to swap over the sump pan and oil pickup, but had to mod the sump pan first to make it fit.
My engine cost me $1000, but that came with the ecu and loom, compression tested, 110k on the clock, from a small town wreckers with no competition, but that also included delivery.

All your extras like AC, alternator, PS pump etc should swap over, but your exhaust won't

I don't believe that the KA24DE was ever turboed from the factory.

Another option, if the engine is still in good nick, consider replacing the carby with a Weber - should boost power and reduce fuel, and be considerably cheaper and easier to do.

SamboD21 said:

What vehicles did they come in?

Click to expand...

Nissan D22 Navara 4x2 and U13 Bluebird (FWD config).

SamboD21 said:

How do they respond to turbos, and how reliable are they?

Click to expand...

According to the US guys, very well, and largely bulletproof.

SamboD21 said:

What else is available for these motors as far as performance goes.

Click to expand...

Anything you could ever want if you are prepared to import from the US. Pistons, cranks, conrods, gaskets, manifolds, chips. Local market? Nothing.

SamboD21 said:

I have been told they came in the 200sx, is this correct?

Click to expand...

240sx. US market only.

SamboD21 said:

Most importantly, what would I expect to pay for a motor in good condition?

Click to expand...

The DOHC commands a premium over the SOHC and if you get a low kilometre motor 100% COMPLETE and with loom and ECU, $2000 isn't unreasonable through a wrecker. They could fairly easily make that much parting the motor out.

Pinelli said:

Don't get one from a FWD car unless you're after a bit of a challenge. KA24DEs were used in some Navaras (and perhaps Pathfinders - not so sure). You want one from a 4WD as well. That way, it slots right in - same engine mounts, same gearbox.

Click to expand...

KA24DE never came in 4x4, you have to go down the sump mod route to have a KA24DE. The mounts are still the same, just not the sump.

Pinelli said:

All your extras like AC, alternator, PS pump etc should swap over, but your exhaust won't

Click to expand...

True for the KA24E, but not the DE. Lots of small differences that make the Z24 stuff largely useless. PS may be one exception.

Pinelli said:

I don't believe that the KA24DE was ever turboed from the factory.

Click to expand...

Correct, but it is a very common mod in the US.

The KA24DE was available overseas in 4wd application.

Lots of JDM vans ran the KA24DE.

There is a stroker kit on the market to take them out to 2.6L aswell.

Dave.

Dion said:

KA24DE never came in 4x4, you have to go down the sump mod route to have a KA24DE. The mounts are still the same, just not the sump.

Click to expand...

redbook lists the 99 D22 4x4 engine as having 4 valves per cylinder, which is the DE, however it was dropped the next year (V6 only in petrol), and in 98 it was the KA24E.
Could be a typo. Even if its not, guess there won't be many around.

Might be some Terrano imports around running the DE.

Dion said:

True for the KA24E, but not the DE. Lots of small differences that make the Z24 stuff largely useless. PS may be one exception.

Click to expand...

Really? Not doubting you, just surprised that the E and DE block were so different. I had to make a few mods to get the Z alternator onto the E block, but not much - file out a hole was really it. Have to be honest and say I haven't played with a DE at all, just assumed they were pretty much the same externally.

Thanks Dion - always nice to poke a few more bits of info away.

From memory the KA24DE pistons in a KA24E block with a KA24E head gives you a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1.

Works the other way to from memory.

As far as I know the blocks are the same, the timing case and sump are different though.

Dave.

Dave said:

From memory the KA24DE pistons in a KA24E block with a KA24E head gives you a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1.

Works the other way to from memory.

As far as I know the blocks are the same, the timing case and sump are different though.

Dave.

Click to expand...

OK, working from memory at the moment then, the A/C bolts onto the block, as does the alternator. The alternator has a bracket for attachment that bolts on to the timing pump, I'm sure this could be modded. Belts might be interesting. Anything else? PS pump not so sure about.

If sump pans between E and DE are different, could the Z sump pan be modded to fit the DE easily enough then? Oil pick up from the Z bolted direclty on to the E with no dramas. Should go on to the DE block too then.

Dion is gonna mod the Z24 sump to fit onto his DE motor.

Will see how he goes with it.

Dave.

Pinelli said:

OK, working from memory at the moment then, the A/C bolts onto the block, as does the alternator.

Click to expand...

The pulley for the AC belt is in a different position along the length of the vehicle, if that makes sense? So the pulleys don't line up, due to the change in the crankshaft pulley design. Minor mod required.

Pinelli said:

The alternator has a bracket for attachment that bolts on to the timing pump, I'm sure this could be modded. Belts might be interesting. Anything else? PS pump not so sure about.

Click to expand...

Similar issue. I'm going to run the alternator the motor is supposed to come with, this is on a plane right now headed here from the USA. Can't use the Z24 alternator as the external fan hits the bracket. Due to the change in the timing case the Z24 alternator tensioner bracket doesn't bolt up and the shape is actually very different, which surprised me.

Pinelli said:

If sump pans between E and DE are different, could the Z sump pan be modded to fit the DE easily enough then?

Click to expand...

I hope so. I'm about to find out this week. Pinelli may I ask what did you use for liquid gasket?

Pinelli said:

Oil pick up from the Z bolted direclty on to the E with no dramas. Should go on to the DE block too then.

Click to expand...

Should do. Hope so.

Dion, use Loktite Blue. It will seal anything. Looks like this might get a bit pricey, as I wanted to use all the ancillaries from the Z motor. I was under the impression they had the same block.

Pinelli said:

redbook lists the 99 D22 4x4 engine as having 4 valves per cylinder, which is the DE, however it was dropped the next year (V6 only in petrol), and in 98 it was the KA24E.
Could be a typo. Even if its not, guess there won't be many around.

Might be some Terrano imports around running the DE.

Click to expand...

I'd say it is a typo. I haven't come across any and neither have any of the wreckers I've spoken to. The local market R20 Terrano ran a KA24E, but they're rare enough on the roads let alone in wrecker's yards.

Pinelli said:

Really? Not doubting you, just surprised that the E and DE block were so different. I had to make a few mods to get the Z alternator onto the E block, but not much - file out a hole was really it. Have to be honest and say I haven't played with a DE at all, just assumed they were pretty much the same externally.

Thanks Dion - always nice to poke a few more bits of info away.

Click to expand...

I'd say Dave is right about the timing case being the big stumbling block - plus the changed crankshaft pulley. I think the block is probably the same, I was thinking of the timing case.

SamboD21 said:

Dion, use Loktite Blue. It will seal anything. Looks like this might get a bit pricey, as I wanted to use all the ancillaries from the Z motor. I was under the impression they had the same block.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I think on a dollar per kilowatt basis, the KA24E might be the better option.

For sump gasket, I used something gunky Black from memory? I'm not really the expert on that. I do know (now) that if you don't go back and tighten the bolts on the sump pan after a few runs, it can start to loosen and leak some pretty serious oil. I wouldn't go for any long trips in the first couple of weeks (sigh).

As far as pulley offsets are concerned, have you looked at using the Z pulley on the DE? I seem to remember mucking around with that to fix that problem you talk about Dion. Can't remember what I did in the end.

And I did have a problem with the fan on the Z alternator fouling the bracket from the KA24E. Angle grinder soon fixed that and still going 18-odd months later. It was only a matter of removing a mm or three and it was fine.

Pinelli said:

For sump gasket, I used something gunky Black from memory? I'm not really the expert on that. I do know (now) that if you don't go back and tighten the bolts on the sump pan after a few runs, it can start to loosen and leak some pretty serious oil. I wouldn't go for any long trips in the first couple of weeks (sigh).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up.

Pinelli said:

As far as pulley offsets are concerned, have you looked at using the Z pulley on the DE? I seem to remember mucking around with that to fix that problem you talk about Dion. Can't remember what I did in the end.

Click to expand...

I've tried and the design seems totally different - Z is a three piece pulley (two pulleys and a collar?) whilst the DE pulley is a one piece with a different keyway.

Pinelli said:

And I did have a problem with the fan on the Z alternator fouling the bracket from the KA24E. Angle grinder soon fixed that and still going 18-odd months later. It was only a matter of removing a mm or three and it was fine.

Click to expand...

That might work for the DE then? Hmm.

The other option I have is a vn v6 conversion. I have a good motor and gearbox sitting in the shed, but I havnt yet bought a conversion kit.
I had a look a while back and the kits seemed to go for the $2500 mark. I would love the v6 and auto rather than the 4 banger, just to be a bit different.
Has anyone tried to fit one of these using only the transfer case adapter and shaft and making their own mounts? I recon I could knock some mounts and a crossmember up pretty easily.
I also have a gas tank and convertor sitting here ready to bolt onto anything, it was with the commodore donor car.

What do you blokes recon will be the better option?

Either way I go, this will be a fully documented buildup of the whole truck.

SamboD21 said:

I would love the v6 and auto rather than the 4 banger, just to be a bit different.

Click to expand...

I'm not bagging out the idea or anything, a Commodore V6 sounds pretty fine by me, but I've personally seen (or read about/seen photos of) a total of two KA24E conversions, zero KA24DE conversions, and about fifteen Commodore V6 conversions.

They're very popular for a good reason, cheap plentiful motors with good power and fuel economy for what they are, etc. So on that basis they're a good bet.

SamboD21 said:

What do you blokes recon will be the better option?

Click to expand...

The only two stumbling blocks that you don't have to encounter with the KA24E/DE, but you do encounter with the V6, one is the purchase price of the adapter kits, $2500 would get you an almost plug-and-play long motor KA24DE with accessories, and the other stumbling block is engineering. Engineering is expensive and troublesome as your emissions and welding and little fiddley shit like evap canisters and stuff is under close scrutiny. So that's just a heads-up if you haven't dealt with engineering before. You can of course skip the engineering but if you ever get defected or decide to sell, you'll have to get it engineered retrospectively, which is often more expensive and you get a less cooperative engineer.

That also brings me onto my next point - resale. I watch the prices of D21 Navaras like a hawk and I can see the sellers of Commodore V6 converted Navaras and Pathfinders trying to sell for a higher price to absorb at least some of what they've outlaid for the swap, and they never quite succeed. When you go non-Nissan, the price takes a big hit.

I've also seen a lot of incomplete V6 swaps where the owner has put the motor in and almost finished, gone to change the rego details so they can drive it around safely and hit the engineering stumbling block and found the cost prohibitive. It's not just the price of the certificate, it's the price of all the semi-related parts that have to be replaced to pass the engineering. KA motors came fitted in late model D21s so you don't have to get them engineered at all.

I've come out all against this - I'm not at all, I guess part of this is sharing my justification for doing a KA24DE over anything else, and part is that I don't want to see another half finished VN-VS V6 converted D21 come up on eBay because that's a waste of time, money and what could be a good car.

Definitely go with the gas, no matter which engine you fit.

Just having a look for some nissan wreckers on the web. Seems to be alot of SR20's about. Anyone tried to fit one of these. I cannot find any KA series motors for sale.

SR20 is doable and has been done, infamousnissan.com is a good place to look for builds for this sort of thing, but you'll need to have an SR20 swap engineered.