D22 Winch with alloy bar

ben85 · Oct 11, 2010

I'm thinking of mounting a winch to a cradle behind the alloy bar and cutting a hole behind the number plate for the fairlead, having the number plate on a hinge covering the fairlead when down.
When I get around to doing the job I will probably be doing a 2" body lift and dual battery setup at the same time.

Has anyone done this before, have any suggestions, comments?

WIR35 · Oct 12, 2010

couple of things;

- Is the alloy bar strong enough for winch mounting? I always thought alloy bars were no good for winches, and vice versa.... but I could be wrong.
- Check out the sticky topic for dual battery setups, plenty of good info there.

Old.Tony · Oct 13, 2010

If you mount it to a 6mm steel cradle directly bolted to the chassis behind the alloy bar with the fairlead on that cradle as well, you'd get away with it but you'd have to take care to keep the recovery angle as straight as possible - use a snatch block to change direction if necessary.

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

WIR35 said:
couple of things;

- Is the alloy bar strong enough for winch mounting? I always thought alloy bars were no good for winches, and vice versa.... but I could be wrong.
- Check out the sticky topic for dual battery setups, plenty of good info there.

I'm not going to be mounting the winch to the alloy bar, I will mount it to a cradle which I will weld or bolt to the chassis.

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

Old.Tony said:
If you mount it to a 6mm steel cradle directly bolted to the chassis behind the alloy bar with the fairlead on that cradle as well, you'd get away with it but you'd have to take care to keep the recovery angle as straight as possible - use a snatch block to change direction if necessary.

Tony that is what I'm planning to do. However I will have the fairlead flush or slightly sitting out past the bar so the winch cable will not touch the bar at all.
I'll probably get a 12000lb rope winch rather than a steel cable.

Dion · Oct 13, 2010

ben85 said:
Tony that is what I'm planning to do. However I will have the fairlead flush or slightly sitting out past the bar so the winch cable will not touch the bar at all.

Still need to mount your fairlead on the cradle, even if you sandwich the bar between the cradle and the fairlead. The alloy bar cannot take the loads put into the fairlead by an off-centre recovery so you need to support the fairlead with the steel cradle.

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

Dion said:
Still need to mount your fairlead on the cradle, even if you sandwich the bar between the cradle and the fairlead. The alloy bar cannot take the loads put into the fairlead by an off-centre recovery so you need to support the fairlead with the steel cradle.

See post number 4.

I will cut a hole in the bar behind the number plate for the fairlead to pass through, which will be mounted to the winch cradle, simple

DVR · Oct 13, 2010

You mean like this?

I elected to make my winch removable wich ment I needed to mount a 2" hitch receptacle to an 8mm Gusseted Plate which bolts to the chassis horns with bolts that go through the bull bar mounts into the horns. much like this

Note that these pics are of a Patrol and the Nav's bull bar mounts are different. They consist of vertical plates sort of like the Patrol but they also have substantial location plates that sit on top & bottom of the horns and your plate will have to sit on top of these and the bolts must also pass through them.

This is how Mine ended up looking.

Be aware that getting nuts into the chassis horns is the biggest issue in this. It involves cutting open the horns either on the front or the side in order to get the nuts in. The Navara Horns seem to be much more robust than the Patrol ones pictured as the ends are completely closed in with a separate plate and there is an internal plate/gusset inside the horns made from 2mm sheet that runs along the top but with a 5mm gap. I drilled straight through them and with Hi Tensile bolts just crushed the plate until the gap was closed up and left it at that. No other way to describe getting the nuts in and tight but as a complete pain in the arse.
Having said that I'm very happy with mine but I dont think I would do it again. I'm a fitter and pretty handy with tools but it took about 4 hours to make my plate and paint it. About 12 hours to fit because I'm fussy and wanted to get all the clearances nice where the hitch pokes through the bar. This meant the bar was put on and off about a dozen times and thing tweaked until I was happy with it.
My 8mm plate is 200mm wide and runs about 5 mm behind my bar exactly in line with the bottom return in the bar. I machined cut outs to clear the various hoses that are in the way andt he hitch was then tacked in place and 2 full width 60mm high gussets were welded on each side that taper to 30mm at the ends. The whole lot was them stitch welded.
DO NOT WELD THE PLATE TO THE HORNS!!!!

cruptd · Oct 13, 2010

Yeh i done it with my alloy bar mate, made up a cradle that sat on the chassis rails.

I had the rollers mounted to the cradle aswell, and they sat just below the number plate. Only had to cut out a few of those grille things in the bar. It sat there really good and looked factory.

Dave · Oct 13, 2010

Dont forget when you mod the bar you change the crumple zone abit.

Insurance companys dont like that on a airbag equipped vehicle.

Dave.

Jon · Oct 13, 2010

cruptd said:
Yeh i done it with my alloy bar mate, made up a cradle that sat on the chassis rails.

I had the rollers mounted to the cradle aswell, and they sat just below the number plate. Only had to cut out a few of those grille things in the bar. It sat there really good and looked factory.

Sounds interesting mate, do you have any pics? What sort of winch did you get behind there?

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

cruptd said:
Yeh i done it with my alloy bar mate, made up a cradle that sat on the chassis rails.

I had the rollers mounted to the cradle aswell, and they sat just below the number plate. Only had to cut out a few of those grille things in the bar. It sat there really good and looked factory.

Be interested also to see some pics.
How did you fix the cradle to the chassis, weld or bolt?

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

DVR said:
You mean like this?

I elected to make my winch removable wich ment I needed to mount a 2" hitch receptacle to an 8mm Gusseted Plate which bolts to the chassis horns with bolts that go through the bull bar mounts into the horns. much like this

Note that these pics are of a Patrol and the Nav's bull bar mounts are different. They consist of vertical plates sort of like the Patrol but they also have substantial location plates that sit on top & bottom of the horns and your plate will have to sit on top of these and the bolts must also pass through them.

This is how Mine ended up looking.

Be aware that getting nuts into the chassis horns is the biggest issue in this. It involves cutting open the horns either on the front or the side in order to get the nuts in. The Navara Horns seem to be much more robust than the Patrol ones pictured as the ends are completely closed in with a separate plate and there is an internal plate/gusset inside the horns made from 2mm sheet that runs along the top but with a 5mm gap. I drilled straight through them and with Hi Tensile bolts just crushed the plate until the gap was closed up and left it at that. No other way to describe getting the nuts in and tight but as a complete pain in the arse.
Having said that I'm very happy with mine but I dont think I would do it again. I'm a fitter and pretty handy with tools but it took about 4 hours to make my plate and paint it. About 12 hours to fit because I'm fussy and wanted to get all the clearances nice where the hitch pokes through the bar. This meant the bar was put on and off about a dozen times and thing tweaked until I was happy with it.
My 8mm plate is 200mm wide and runs about 5 mm behind my bar exactly in line with the bottom return in the bar. I machined cut outs to clear the various hoses that are in the way andt he hitch was then tacked in place and 2 full width 60mm high gussets were welded on each side that taper to 30mm at the ends. The whole lot was them stitch welded.
DO NOT WELD THE PLATE TO THE HORNS!!!!

Yep, like the patrol I'm thinking.
Only I want to mount the winch a bit higher so that its behind the number plate if i can, also going to do a bodylift so will be trying account for some extra height there too. I'll be getting a rope winch so i'll have the smaller fairlead not the rollers.

Why do you say not to weld to the horns?

ben85 · Oct 13, 2010

Dave said:
Dont forget when you mod the bar you change the crumple zone abit.

Insurance companys dont like that on a airbag equipped vehicle.

Dave.

Mines a 2002 st-r, no air bags

cruptd · Oct 13, 2010

Jon said:
Sounds interesting mate, do you have any pics? What sort of winch did you get behind there?

Nah i dont have any pics unfortunately, it was on there for ages, bit then i bent up the aluminium bar, and got a new steel bar on insurance.

I might have some pics on a camera somewhere, i'll have to have a look.

I had an x9 superwinch on it, but it fits others aswell. warns definately fitted in it.

I welded the cradle between the bar mounts (which are steel) and also had a couple of high tensile bolts going through the chassis rails so it was still removable.

Mine sat a little lower than the one in these pics, it sat perfectly in the cut ous in the bar.

DVR · Oct 13, 2010

ben85 said:
Yep, like the patrol I'm thinking.
Only I want to mount the winch a bit higher so that its behind the number plate if i can, also going to do a bodylift so will be trying account for some extra height there too. I'll be getting a rope winch so i'll have the smaller fairlead not the rollers.

Why do you say not to weld to the horns?

Mounting it higher will not be so straight forward.
A hi mounted winch will still have to be mounted to the horns but with more elaborate framework to achieve your desired height. The higher you mount it the stronger your frame will have to be and substantially so because of leverage. However strong you make your cradle this leverage will then be transmitted directly to the horns and remember that with a high winch even a straight pull will be pulling the horns down. The horns are not immovable bits of iron work that you can do anything to. They have ripples in them to allow them to collapse if they get a whack. This means that if you start applying oblique pressure to them they can and will bend in the direction they are being pulled if the force gets high enough, taking your bull bar with them.

It's never a good idea to weld to your chassis unless you know exactly what your doing. and the Horns are designed to flex and welds dont flex.

DVR · Oct 13, 2010

I just remembered!!
I bough my Nav from a guy who buys economical right off from the auctions and gets them back on the road. When I pick up my Nav, t\he had a 02 STR with the front stripped of it. He was straightening the horns with a 10 ton porta power so the bull bar would sit straight. basically he welded a chain to the front of the horn that was bent up and bolted the porta power to a rail that was in his workshop floor. He had no trouble pulling the horn back into place with a 10 ton porta power!
How big a winch are you planing to hi mount?

WIR35 · Oct 13, 2010

Wow - looks like a lot of work guys.... Glad I got a steel bar!!

Old.Tony · Oct 14, 2010

Just throwing in a reminder ...

Your 9,000lb winch pulls 4.3 tonnes - double the weight of your vehicle. If you snatch-block it once, it will pull 8.6 tonnes.

Your framework has to support this.

It also has to - continuously and for a very long time - support the strain of a 40kg object sitting there as you go over corrugations, speed humps, pedestrians, kangaroos, causeways, hiluxs, wombats, driveway entries, mudholes, potholes, divots, ripples, dunes, rocks logs and two smoking barrels.

It will only do all of this if:

1) The framework is strong enough. 6mm steel plate is.

2) You don't create a lever in the framework. The closer to the chassis you can mount this device the better. Every millimetre away from there adds to the leverage applied to the mounts and adds to the bending moment on the framework.

There's also the weight to consider if you create a lot of framework - your front suspension needs to support this.

As long as you can get the mount close to the chassis, you should be fine. Trying to position it above or below the chassis rails with extra framework etc could be done, no doubts at all, but I keep thinking about what could happen when I'm alone on a track, stuck in mud up to my axles and I need to do a slightly off-centre recovery of myself and when I think of a winch that's too far away from the strong parts of the vehicle, I get really worried that I'm just going to have to leave the rig there and call for help.

ben85 · Oct 14, 2010

DVR said:
Mounting it higher will not be so straight forward.
A hi mounted winch will still have to be mounted to the horns but with more elaborate framework to achieve your desired height. The higher you mount it the stronger your frame will have to be and substantially so because of leverage. However strong you make your cradle this leverage will then be transmitted directly to the horns and remember that with a high winch even a straight pull will be pulling the horns down. The horns are not immovable bits of iron work that you can do anything to. They have ripples in them to allow them to collapse if they get a whack. This means that if you start applying oblique pressure to them they can and will bend in the direction they are being pulled if the force gets high enough, taking your bull bar with them.

It's never a good idea to weld to your chassis unless you know exactly what your doing. and the Horns are designed to flex and welds dont flex.

I was a bit concearned about this when I thought of doing it, I thought maybe I could work around it somehow.
Seems like it will be better to just mount it on top of the horns as usual.
The only reason I wanted it higher was so I could put the fairlead behind the number plate instead of where the cutouts are in the alloy bar like the guy with the patrol did.

I'm going to use a 12000lb tigers 11 rope winch, only weigh 23kg.

D22 Winch with alloy bar

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