Gonski. Can we afford it ?

[Dave]

As per title.

 

[Tappet]

It's not wether can we afford it. It's how can we not afford to. Going into debt for this is an invesment in the future. It's worth every cent.

Get education right and and the rest will fall into place. Less crime, better health, higher skilled nation, the list is endless.

I'm not the most academic bloke but I'm smart enough to work out the Gonski school funding progam is nation building and it don't come cheap.

Top 5 of education systems in the world-
Finland
South Korea
Hong Kong
Japan
Singapore

You can make a few deducuctions from that.

 

[Dave]

Why where the money be spent ?

Why now do we suddenly need all this extra money, my mum and grandmother spell better then the current 15 year olds.

Perhaps we need to remove the Greeny bullshit out of schools, get rid of the do gooder attitude and the science thats apparently been settled..

Oh wait, the Climate Change science is now on the table.

 

[nakedape]

We are falling behind in education thanks to previous governments of all flavours focusing on mythical perpetual growth instead of wjat matters. For example, in Pakistan of all places primary school kids are doing algebra at a year 12 Aus equivalent standard. Korean and Chinese Universities kick our uni's arses in terms of standards. How are our kids supposed to compete in an increasingly international market if we don't raise the bar on education? And it'll only cost you a few beers/ ciggies/ cones/ 4x4 magazines FFS!

More importantly, an educated society (properly educated e.g. well rounded in history, philosophy, as well as the three R's) not just a job ready society, is less prone to suffer an autocratic authority (cooperate or government) -- is that what the opponents of education reform really fear?

 

[legend489]

Yes we need it and no we can not afford it. Don't spend money you don't have, use what you have more effectively.

 

[Tappet]

I just can't understand how people can be against this. It's a no brainer. Yes, there will be some debt but every cent we can put in now will be returned with intrest in generations to come.
As nakedape point out it's not just in a fisical sense either. I mean wouldn't we rather our kids there instead of running around in some kind of dumb down redneck wonderland.

Our education standards are slipping, that a fact! As dave points out his mother and grandmother can spell better than a 15y.o. When I was young kid it almost like competition between the states for braging rites on who could spend the most on education. Now it's like some competiton on who can spend the least.

We have dicks like Campbell Newman and that other thing over in the west saying "oh we don't go down the road of Canberra knows best." Sheesh!

BTW legend. I guess your never going to have a loan or morgage. You know, just save up and pay for the house cash. A bit of debt can be a very good means to an ends.

Goverments aren't meant to run like some share listed corperation. Where every year the profit has to exceed the last.

 

[Nevyn]

Sorry I don't agree with the throw more money at something, it will fix it attitude. Like Dave just pointed out, his Grandmother can spell and it didn't take billions of dollars to help her learn. The biggest problem these days is the parents of the said kids who can't read etc. Education starts at home, reading books to them from an early age, creative exercises and so on. Teachers are increasingly expected to cram all sorts of useless garbage into a school week at the expense of the three R's. Our kids are hardly in the classroom theses days because of all these special days they now have to recognise, not to mention all the pupil free days etc.
Throwing money at a problem won't fix it, re-evaluate and get back to basics.

Cheers Brad

 

[180degrees]

My mum is a teacher, of mainly year 11 and 12 English, basically from what she has told me schools have adopted a business orientated approach with regards to education. They are really only concerned with riding the teachers and staff as much as possible, asking them to do ridiculous amounts of work for the salary they get and they do not really care about the kids education anymore just about their budgets.

There are also way to many shackles that make it very difficult to fail kids who just don't want to do the work or to remove kids who bring toxic behavior into schools (drugs, violence ect). The whole system is one big rotten edifice that has over the years become to easy for kids to slip through the cracks. Someone mentioned that their grandmother can spell better than a 15 year old, probably because that 15 year old didn't have to worry about getting their knuckles hit with a ruler or worse. I am not saying bring back corporal punishment but kids need some sort of disciplinary action otherwise its just to easy to **** around at school.

No amount of money or technology is going to fix the problem, the problem is the whole education system in Australia has to be reformed. Last I knew we were ranked 27th in the world for level of education so it could be worse but could also be better.

 

[doc]

I don't know if there IS a magic answer. Maybe the whole idea of what Gonski has proposed (I haven't read the docs) has merit. But at what cost? The current Fed Gov just keeps spending, but where will the money come from? It's fine to say "a little debt is worth the investment", but it's our grandkids which will be paying for all this, because the debt levels of the country are already high.

 

[legend489]

I just can't understand how people can be against this. It's a no brainer. Yes, there will be some debt but every cent we can put in now will be returned with intrest in generations to come.
As nakedape point out it's not just in a fisical sense either. I mean wouldn't we rather our kids there instead of running around in some kind of dumb down redneck wonderland.

Our education standards are slipping, that a fact! As dave points out his mother and grandmother can spell better than a 15y.o. When I was young kid it almost like competition between the states for braging rites on who could spend the most on education. Now it's like some competiton on who can spend the least.

We have dicks like Campbell Newman and that other thing over in the west saying "oh we don't go down the road of Canberra knows best." Sheesh!

BTW legend. I guess your never going to have a loan or morgage. You know, just save up and pay for the house cash. A bit of debt can be a very good means to an ends.

Goverments aren't meant to run like some share listed corperation. Where every year the profit has to exceed the last.

A bit of debt yes but where does it stop? The good times are coming to an end. When and how are we going to pay it all back.

 

[nakedape]

because the debt levels of the country are already high.

Compared to what? Deficit of about $12B against total receipts of over $360B aint too bad. And besides, if we spend more on education there'll be less to spend on tax breaks for the wealthy, or cash handouts for the upper-middle whingers.

 

[doc]

Its not the deficit of 12B I'm worried about. Its the 12B ON TOP OF the existing Gov debt. The 12B that is the current number is only for this budget cycle - it doesn't include all the other combined deficits that we still haven't paid for.

 

[Dave]

NakedApe, weren't we going to have a "Surplus" ?

I would rather see these Green subsides cut. From memory, these "Green" schemes are costing the tax payer 18 billion dollars a year.

Ausaid needs to be cut back, the Gillard and Dudd government have turned them into a Labor hack pay packet.

Isn't the Chairman of the NDIS a ex Labor hack too ?

Jobs for the boys.

 

[Tappet]

We were suposed to have a surplus and one thing they should of been more realisitc about a couple of years ago. Trying to say there would be a surplus when every economist in the country was saying it was unlikely and that having a surplus was not important. Swan was going on about a surplus more for politcal reason that anything else.
See Dave I don't agree with labor on everything
Fact is the dollar has gone thru the roof and although comodoty prices have risen, tax reciepts are way down as most trade in comodites is based on US dollars.

As for jobs for the boys it was Torries who invented that. There has been a bit of talk about Howard for GG. Now this happens it will truely be a job for boys setup.

 

[Dave]

So Bob Carr flying around the world constantly handing out OUR money has had nothing to do with it ?

How much did the Gillard government give QLD with their last flood again, meanwhile handing out billions with this Climate Change rubbish.

 

[dirtjockey]

predetermined
foreknowledge
afterthought
attentiveness
politeness
congressional
thoughtlessness
congratulation
generation
profession
illustration
flawlessness

These are some of the spelling words of my 7year old daughter's homework - she is in grade 3 - when I was in grade 3 - I was flat out spelling my name. I'm not an idiot (I've got an arts and law degree) and I struggle to understand how Australia is supposedly so far behind the rest of the world.

 

[nakedape]

NakedApe, weren't we going to have a "Surplus" ?

.

Yes. But swanny didn't want you getting bored so he spiked it just for you.

Costello gave us a surplus but failed to spend on infrastructure. Swanny spent on infrastructure but has a defecit -- if they met in the middle we'd all be good.

 

[KraftyPg]

One look at internet forums from this country shows that somewhere along the lines the basics of English and spelling have skipped many people.

One visit to a store to watch the twit on the checkout dumbfounded when they need to work out simple mathematics shows mathematics in this country has failed.

Spending money on education really can't hurt.

 

[nakedape]

One look at internet forums from this country shows that somewhere along the lines the basics of English and spelling have skipped many people.

One visit to a store to watch the twit on the checkout dumbfounded when they need to work out simple mathematics shows mathematics in this country has failed.

Spending money on education really can't hurt.

Lol

Sorry, I'll repeat in longhand for you: laugh out loud. Interpreting that in old folk speak - that was a rather witty response that I found to be amusing!

 

[Dave]

Where is the moeny going to be spent ?

Only NSW has signed up, I love seeing tax payers money spent on Labor propaganda.

50 million dollars to promote this.