yep that was my point all those links are useless, and out of all that crap he calls proof is that one little test result that still has nothing to do with what the thread is about. Like you said useless.
Adding 2-Stroke oil to Diesel
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yep that was my point all those links are useless, and out of all that crap he calls proof is that one little test result that still has nothing to do with what the thread is about. Like you said useless.
Half way through my second tank of diesel/penrite and it's no longer blowing smoke at low revs butting still bellows out during high revs. It can be possible that the oil is helping to clean out the soot deposits that built up over the years or it could be that I tightened all the clamps on my intercooler pipes?
I also found something today explaining that sulphur is not the lubricant but a "carrier" of the properties that do lubricate.
The molecules of the polymers, esters and fatty acids that act as the lubricating components bind themselves to the molecules of the sulphur.
When the omission regulations required that fuels have less sulphur to reduce Co2 the refining process that removed sulphur would also remove the molecules bound to the sulphur which made the fuel more abrasive. The methods of removing sulphur have been refined to ensure that the governments minimum lubrication measurements are met.
Does anyone else know anything about this?
I also found something today explaining that sulphur is not the lubricant but a "carrier" of the properties that do lubricate.
The molecules of the polymers, esters and fatty acids that act as the lubricating components bind themselves to the molecules of the sulphur.
When the omission regulations required that fuels have less sulphur to reduce Co2 the refining process that removed sulphur would also remove the molecules bound to the sulphur which made the fuel more abrasive. The methods of removing sulphur have been refined to ensure that the governments minimum lubrication measurements are met.
Does anyone else know anything about this?
I've been reading a little about the issue, but more as it pertains to Biodiesel. Apparently biodiesel replaces the lubricating elements even better than 2-stroke oil but there are caveats on biodiesel.
Biodiesel based on tallow (southern Australia) has better cold flow properties than biodiesel based on palm oil (Northern Territory) although both make it worse (and nowhere near as good as biodiesel based on rapeseed in Europe). Both types of biodiesel have good oxidative stability but apparently they can cause dilution of the engine oil - the consequences are SUPPOSED to be a decrease of lubricity and reduction of oil service intervals (source: http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/information-on-biodiesel ).
I think the lubricity they are referring to is the sump-based lubrication, not the fuel-system. Our pumps aren't lubricated like petrol pumps, relying partially on the fuel to provide the lubrication. That's where the 2-stroke has an advantage (and over biodiesel, if the cold flow and dilution issues are dramatic). I don't think the 2-stroke (mineral-based) oil used as an additive in fuel (particularly at the 200:1 ratio) would have anywhere near the consequences of the biodiesel. I am not sure of the proportions of esters in 2-stroke oil, but these are the major concern with using biodiesel in our rigs.
Biodiesel based on tallow (southern Australia) has better cold flow properties than biodiesel based on palm oil (Northern Territory) although both make it worse (and nowhere near as good as biodiesel based on rapeseed in Europe). Both types of biodiesel have good oxidative stability but apparently they can cause dilution of the engine oil - the consequences are SUPPOSED to be a decrease of lubricity and reduction of oil service intervals (source: http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/information-on-biodiesel ).
I think the lubricity they are referring to is the sump-based lubrication, not the fuel-system. Our pumps aren't lubricated like petrol pumps, relying partially on the fuel to provide the lubrication. That's where the 2-stroke has an advantage (and over biodiesel, if the cold flow and dilution issues are dramatic). I don't think the 2-stroke (mineral-based) oil used as an additive in fuel (particularly at the 200:1 ratio) would have anywhere near the consequences of the biodiesel. I am not sure of the proportions of esters in 2-stroke oil, but these are the major concern with using biodiesel in our rigs.
K
Krankin
Guest
Give Bio a BIG nothanks then..
If anyone is interested these are very good reads and contains all of what needs to be known on the subject.
Lubricant Additives: Chemistry and Applications, edited by Leslie R. Rudnick.
http://vaseghi.org/file/book/lubricant-additives-chemistry-and-applications.pdf
Lubricant Additives: Chemistry and Applications, second edition.
http://vaseghi.org/file/book/lubricant-additives-chemistry-and-applications.pdf
Lubricant Chemistry, Technology, Selection, and Design, by Syed Q. A. Rizvi.
http://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/MNL/SOURCE_PAGES/MNL59_foreword.pdf
All with PDF links so you don't have to buy the book!
Lubricant Additives: Chemistry and Applications, edited by Leslie R. Rudnick.
http://vaseghi.org/file/book/lubricant-additives-chemistry-and-applications.pdf
Lubricant Additives: Chemistry and Applications, second edition.
http://vaseghi.org/file/book/lubricant-additives-chemistry-and-applications.pdf
Lubricant Chemistry, Technology, Selection, and Design, by Syed Q. A. Rizvi.
http://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/MNL/SOURCE_PAGES/MNL59_foreword.pdf
All with PDF links so you don't have to buy the book!
K
KraftyPg
Guest
What's wrong with the spelling?
K
KraftyPg
Guest
oh 
and here I was thinking you just weren't clever enough to realise what he was talking about, my deepest apologies.
and here I was thinking you just weren't clever enough to realise what he was talking about, my deepest apologies.
Haha ... I did speel it rightly so buut my grammer is evin gooder wurking.
Rapeseed blossom, from the rapeseed article on Wikipedia. Apparently it's the better biodiesel source in the world.
I'll stick to 2-stroke though (for lubricity without the consequences of sump dilution). I was hankering to try some biodiesel but I'm no longer certain it's a good idea, despite that it does seem to make the car run more efficiently.
Its a trade-off I'm not happy to make until they resolve the dilution issue.
isn't it written in our manuals that we cant use biodeisel anyway because it go's to gell at 3 degrees celcius, try'ed some 2t in mine and i noticed no change in engine noise so i might get my timing chain checked just in case. it may even still be noisey worn injectors, but if the timing chain does stretch wouldn't that make the injectors noisey anyway.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
Not exactly, it's written in the warranty that we shouldn't use Bio because it may void the warranty and it's a standard clause to protect manufacturers who obviously have no control over the sort of bio that one uses. Bio comes in so many flavours it's impossible for any manufacturer to test and warrant against it but it will make these engines run and just like the 2T debate many say run so much better.
That's a good point, Krafty. And it does bring to mind how I found biodiesel to perform - it was brilliant for performance/economy - but I really don't want to risk the dilution problem, so 2-stroke will have to be my 'poison'.
Almost 900km since I last filled up and still have a ways to go yet, and the next tank will be used with the van behind us on the long weekend. My injectors are still nice and quiet, there's no discernible noise from the timing chain but I'm getting a bloody squeak on cold start - the friggin' serpentine belt.
And no, I am NOT using 2T on that!
Almost 900km since I last filled up and still have a ways to go yet, and the next tank will be used with the van behind us on the long weekend. My injectors are still nice and quiet, there's no discernible noise from the timing chain but I'm getting a bloody squeak on cold start - the friggin' serpentine belt.
And no, I am NOT using 2T on that!
Well why not Tony????? splash it around it will probably turn it into a brand new one and wont need changing ever again......
Im adding it to everything now! i use to just put it in my dirt bikes and chain saw but im so impressed with it im adding to my cereal in the morning...... and i reckon i will live to 150!!!
K
KraftyPg
Guest
Yeah but you are still making a unnatural noise
And spraying the hell out of the bowl...... but im as clean as a whistle and my running temps are down, only prob is the dunny paper economy has blown right out......
K
Krankin
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rabbit-chop
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any one know where to buy bulk 2t cheap? nothing much on ebay.
I'd ask someone that races trail bikes.
