Anonymous shutting down Government!
- Thread starter gunning1987
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Nevyn
Member
So are you going to shut down Facebook gunning? Because if you didn't
already know FB is one of the biggest opposers of SOPA. I don't use FB so I couldn't give a toss but are people really giving any coherent thought to any of this nonsense. As for the bill(s) before congress in the US, they're looking less likely to pass as each day ends. And it won't have anything to do with Anon but more so to do with legitimate business and reputable dealings between adults (deliberate barb
)
already know FB is one of the biggest opposers of SOPA. I don't use FB so I couldn't give a toss but are people really giving any coherent thought to any of this nonsense. As for the bill(s) before congress in the US, they're looking less likely to pass as each day ends. And it won't have anything to do with Anon but more so to do with legitimate business and reputable dealings between adults (deliberate barb
)
TurboGQ
Member
If only we had a video store nearby,,,, closest store is 900km away, closest cinema is 900km away, once a week post delivery,,, internet download is great, if the movie is good you buy it when it comes out but when you see these companies spending 300million on a movie well little old me in the bush is not going to affect there income, since if it is a decent movie i purchase it.... i still blame metallica for ruining p2p on napster.... if a person has purchased a product he/she should be able to do as they wish with it... where was the copy rights screamers when we had records and we used to record them onto blank cassettes or recording tv shows with dvd or video recorders,,,, the yanks should worry about other things apart from censorship of the internet....
just my 2 cents no pun intended towards anyone....
Biscuits
Ginger Ninja.
It is naive to believe governments can't control the internet.
The internet is a collection of servers containing information. These servers exist on LAND, that land is control and legislated by GOVERNMENTS.
If a government legislates that containing particular types of material on you servers is illegal. Then they have effectively controlled the internet.
The internet is a collection of servers containing information. These servers exist on LAND, that land is control and legislated by GOVERNMENTS.
If a government legislates that containing particular types of material on you servers is illegal. Then they have effectively controlled the internet.
K
Krankin
Guest
Biscuits
Ginger Ninja.
A perfect expample. ^^^
K
KraftyPg
Guest
It's not often someone says the Chinese government is a perfect example of something!
Don't be conned into thinking that Anonymous is any sort of cohesive group with any real aims in mind. They're a vigilante group with no real hierarchy and no accountability to anyone else. Anyone or any group could claim to be Anonymous, and no one would really know. And they quite often resort to criminal acts. Some of their attacks have been against quite innocent companies and websites, based on a misunderstanding or misinformation.
I'm not a fan of GetUp, but at least with them you know what their (public) aims are, and who has to take responsibility if they go too far (same could be said of the Chaser Boys, but they're also more entertaining and to the point).
I'm not a fan of GetUp, but at least with them you know what their (public) aims are, and who has to take responsibility if they go too far (same could be said of the Chaser Boys, but they're also more entertaining and to the point).
Geoff3DMN
Member
I'm not saying that illegal downloading is right (or moral) but you're drawing a long bow here.
What's happening here isn't 'stealing', it's unlawful use.
It's like an employee at work using the work equipment without permission to do a 'foreigner' without using any of the work supplies. At the end of the process the business might have lost some income (because the equipment and the work might have been generating income) or they might not (because no one might have needed them at that point).
Either way at the end of the day the business still have their equipment and that equipment is still able to generate more income for the business.
So...
Unlawful use, not stealing.
Oh and we spend a fair amount on iTunes movie downloads around here (which is a decent if not perfect legal alternative to the above).
Think of iTunes as being like "renting the works equipment and returning it later" (I sleep better at night too).
iTunes is perfectly legal, and gives you the same rights as if you'd bought the movie, you just don't get the bit of plastic media.
And if your 'foreigner' job is work your boss would normally have picked up anyway, they may not see it in the same light as you!
K
KraftyPg
Guest
Personal views are like arseholes everyone's got one and not all of them are pretty. Having been involved in internet only music releases and music company releases I can see both are valid means of getting music to people but taking the music someone has made before they have had a chance to release it is still stealing. It might not be exactly the same as breaking into someones house and taking their tv but it's not far short of it no matter how long your bow is. I'd imagine the guys financing the movies feel the same. By definition even taking a product without paying for it after it's been released is still stealing.
If a person takes anything that is not theirs, digital or not, without paying it's stealing, what they do with that product once it's in their possession may or may not be illegal use, but "illegal use" is not a fair description of taking something that is not rightfully yours.
If a person takes anything that is not theirs, digital or not, without paying it's stealing, what they do with that product once it's in their possession may or may not be illegal use, but "illegal use" is not a fair description of taking something that is not rightfully yours.
terryc
Member
You might want to check your analogy. I vaguely remember something where someone found out that he had paid for a plastic equivalent, but simply he right to use it on that particular device. He found it out when that one broke and he had to buy a replacement.
Microsoft has been doing a similar method with their OS for a couple of decades.
Geoff3DMN
Member
Actually I was talking about iTunes movie rentals, not iTunes movie purchases which is why I used the 'foreigner' analogy. But yes it's a perfectly legal alternative which is why we use it.
I'm my own boss, I've got 12 full time and 13 part time staff. I was talking about how I see things as a boss!
I don't see someone doing their own work in the workshop as 'stealing', it's using my stuff without my permission.
That's an issue that requires either warnings or action against the staff member (if they've done it during work hours without permission) but it ISN'T stealing.
Stealing = Removal of an object or product leaving the original owner without it.
NB I'm not saying that the penalties for pirating should be lesser (or greater for that matter), I'm just saying that the actual word 'stealing'
is being misused.
I've never bought a movie on iTunes, but I have bought songs, and the licence gives you the right to have it installed on (I think) up to 5 devices at a time. You can remove it from a device, and place it on another. Your ipod breaks, you buy a new one, and you can install it on there instead.
With the plastic media, you break it, its gone.
Semantics
A foreigner job puts wear and tear on your gear, reducing your capacity (as the boss) to make goods, reducing profitability.
Pirated sales reduce the capacity of the producer to make sales (less demand), reducing profitability.
If your employees misused your gear to the extent it affected your profitability, you'd do something about it. If its minor you probably wouldn't bother, so for the comparison to be valid you need to consider the scale of piracy or misuse I guess. Piracy is huge.
BTW, legally at least, piracy is considered theft or stealing.
terryc
Member
Only in the fevered minds of the music and movie industries.
Soz, but web search didn't turn up the link to the paper.
I agree with Pinelli - piracy is rampant.
Napster had HUGE numbers online, as do quite a number of the torrent sites. The number of mp3-based channels in IRC was enormous.
Piracy is, as the name implies, taking something that isn't rightfully yours. While it's true that the artist doesn't make a lot of money from the sale of an album these days, and much of the funds go to the other intermediaries, NOT paying for an album, movie or e-book is very much akin to theft.
Who notices this theft - who does it affect the most? If it's a movie, most of the money is made through the box office. Sales of the DVD don't always generate huge profits for the company - although there have been a few movies that have been released straight to DVD and have done reasonably well - although NONE of these have reached anywhere near the income levels of box office releases.
Most of the impact in lost DVD and music sales is felt by the distribution portion of the industry - those that manufacture the discs, put them in covers, ship to warehouses, distribute to retailers and sell to customers. The artist/film producers generally don't see a large portion of the income from DVD/album sales, which is a shame - but it doesn't make the lack of purchase any more correct.
Purchasing the item gives you the legal right to have it. Taking it through some illegitimate means does not. Perhaps 'theft' or 'piracy' aren't the exact words that should be used, but it is akin to these and the concept is close enough that for general use either term is near enough to convey the illegality of the actions.
Napster had HUGE numbers online, as do quite a number of the torrent sites. The number of mp3-based channels in IRC was enormous.
Piracy is, as the name implies, taking something that isn't rightfully yours. While it's true that the artist doesn't make a lot of money from the sale of an album these days, and much of the funds go to the other intermediaries, NOT paying for an album, movie or e-book is very much akin to theft.
Who notices this theft - who does it affect the most? If it's a movie, most of the money is made through the box office. Sales of the DVD don't always generate huge profits for the company - although there have been a few movies that have been released straight to DVD and have done reasonably well - although NONE of these have reached anywhere near the income levels of box office releases.
Most of the impact in lost DVD and music sales is felt by the distribution portion of the industry - those that manufacture the discs, put them in covers, ship to warehouses, distribute to retailers and sell to customers. The artist/film producers generally don't see a large portion of the income from DVD/album sales, which is a shame - but it doesn't make the lack of purchase any more correct.
Purchasing the item gives you the legal right to have it. Taking it through some illegitimate means does not. Perhaps 'theft' or 'piracy' aren't the exact words that should be used, but it is akin to these and the concept is close enough that for general use either term is near enough to convey the illegality of the actions.
Brett 76
Member
I used to download movies and music 24/7 couple years ago but have since stopped. Now i just download free to air American shows MONTHS before they are released here in Australia without ADS, I don't consider anything that is showed freely to be classed as stealing.
As with Itunes I dont like the fact if you purchase a cd and your idevice has to be reformatted or the songs deleted you get charged again for that cd if you haven't backed up beforehand. It should keep records that you purchased that CD so you can re-download it like they do with their app store. Sometimes backing up a idevice is not practicable therefore you lose all your music you purchased.
Brett
As with Itunes I dont like the fact if you purchase a cd and your idevice has to be reformatted or the songs deleted you get charged again for that cd if you haven't backed up beforehand. It should keep records that you purchased that CD so you can re-download it like they do with their app store. Sometimes backing up a idevice is not practicable therefore you lose all your music you purchased.
Brett
K
KraftyPg
Guest
Well technically it's still illegal to record tv broadcasts but there aren't many households with a VCR at the very least. I remember when we got Austar installed back in the early 90's the tech made a point of telling us we could record whatever we liked off the Austar system because we were paying for it and that meant any legal ramifications were absolved. No idea if there was any truth to that given broadcasting laws like they are but amusing to hear install techs offering such wisdom.
Recording stuff off free to air is definitely ok, as shown.in the recent court case where Optus (i think) was retransmitting Foxtel sports channels on its own mobile network, with a 2 minute delay 2 minutes was considered long enough to pass personal use recording laws. Downloading stuff that has been shown on.free to air overseas not so much.
