D22 in trouble

[jtabs]

Hey guys - I am after some know how and advice! So far the forum has offered up some good info but I feel I have now exhausted the search button.

My navara hadn't been running that well since I first brought it. I have researched the forum over the last month since buying it and have tried the easy fixes, as most suggest, to fix her lack of power. I solved it! well partially - air in the fuel line and pukt turbo hoses. Cool I was stoked.

But this is where the fun started. Shes also been making a pretty scary, non rhythmic, rattle type "clack". A serious one I decided... after reading the word "grenade" on the patrol forum! So I took her into the Nissan dealership - thought id get a professional opinion on what it could be. Probably should have asked you fellas first!

A mechanic had a listen and said they had to open her up - off with the timing chain cover. I didn't see the harm in this as it sounded like, and I thought it could be, the timing chain. They said the chain looked ok, although a little slack (aye? its either satisfactory or it isn't, which is it? haha). They said they could replace it but no guarantees it would solve the rattle clack.

Before I had it to the dealers I took it to the bloke who skimmed the head on my jet boat and asked whether it was something in the head. He had a listen and suggested it sounded like something free floating in the head (heart sunk) due to its non rhythmic nature.

So I told the dealership mechanic who said ohk we will take the rocker cover off and have a look. Nothing obvious showed. They suggested they run a compression test as they couldn't 100% identify where the trouble was. They said it ran 420,420,400,380 psi from cylinders 1 - 4. I looked it up and the manual says this is within the 43psi range tolerance (although just). Anyway - they said we have to keep digging further or another option, as pulling it apart was going to cost a ton, why not put a second hand engine in!

So after saying it would cost me 3-4k for a timing chain replacement or 10k for a second hand engine - and a bill for 4 hundy bucks - I had a laugh and towed it home. A mate has lent me his truck for 3 months while hes overseas. So the navs at home till I can save up to fix it. Or i could have a go myself.

I had a poke around after I towed it home and I found metal filings in the oil filter (they hadn't removed it). Wish I had done this before taking it to them. Not a good look.

So that's where I and my Nav are at. Can you help me piece the bits together haha. What could be causing this non-rhythmic clacking sound? How would you go about fixing it?

Cheers - JT

 

[tweak'e]

sounds are the hardest thing to diagnose.
can you take a video of it?

does it look like its had work done on it ?
ie new turbo?

 

[jtabs]

Hi tweak'e! That was quick!

Yea I noticed that in other posts - sounds are hard to make sense of. Bummer. I thought about taking a video of the noise, like others have done, but i hadn't envisaged towing the nav home in pieces, so hadn't. Its here at home with the rocker cover and timing chain cover off. Figured if i need to strip it the dealers had done half of it for me already. So I can only describe it for you i am afraid. It is there on start up, when cold or hot, its non rhythmic, faintly audible while driving (most common at idle or while decelerating). It is not a tick or knock. It is faint rattle/chatter with a loud distinct clack every now and then.

Regarding work being done on it. I noticed that the timing chain cover looked like it had been removed prior to the dealership removing it. There was a lot of grey gasket glue about the place. The turbo looks like the original. I checked the play of the compressor shaft and there is minimal play - i could move it slightly up and down though.

 

[Old.Tony]

Moving the turbo up and down a noticeable amount means there's too much play. There's supposed to be no discernible movement in the shaft - the manual for your engine doesn't even give a value for it.

I'd take a look inside the air hoses on the pressure side of the turbocharger for metal shavings, or look inside the turbo for signs of chafing. If your turbocharger impeller is rubbing on the housing it won't spin up properly (giving you a loss of power) and if the bearings are really shot it's possible that it's getting a little move-along from its turbine then halting again - it will be erratic.

I'd be inspecting the turbo. It's good that you're not driving it at the moment - if the turbo lets loose and drops fragments into the engine, the engine is gone. An intercooler will give you a minor performance benefit and a major capture of turbocharger fragments.

Look in the FAQs here for info on caring for turbochargers.

 

[Rumpig]

Check you haven't got a glow plug tip missing, bouncing around on a piston. Metal filings in the filter are a real concern.

 

[Old.Tony]

Check you haven't got a glow plug tip missing, bouncing around on a piston. Metal filings in the filter are a real concern.

If (like on other diesels) you have to remove the glow plugs to conduct the compression test and they didn't notice this already, there's a good indication of who NOT to take the car back to.

 

[sparra04]

10 k for a 2nd hand engine is a bit steep
have you considered a rebuild?

 

[jtabs]

Moving the turbo up and down a noticeable amount means there's too much play. There's supposed to be no discernible movement in the shaft - the manual for your engine doesn't even give a value for it.

I'd take a look inside the air hoses on the pressure side of the turbocharger for metal shavings, or look inside the turbo for signs of chafing. If your turbocharger impeller is rubbing on the housing it won't spin up properly (giving you a loss of power) and if the bearings are really shot it's possible that it's getting a little move-along from its turbine then halting again - it will be erratic.

Hey Old Tony - thanks for the tips on the turbo! Old but wise aye.....! haha This makes sense. The noise is a very sharp clack - like something catching. I notice when the turbo spools up a bit - perhaps getting a bit of centrifugal force going - the noise dissipates. I have a foggy memory seeing the compressor fans edges looking a little "roughed up". I will have another look for signs of chaffing etc. The boost is erratic also - working well sometimes - then going flat other times. It could be a goer!

Regarding the repair of such an issue - a complete new turbo? or could a new cartridge be ok? - or is that a hastle?

Cheers, JT

 

[jtabs]

Check you haven't got a glow plug tip missing, bouncing around on a piston. Metal filings in the filter are a real concern.

Hey man - cheers for the heads up!

The dealers said the glow plugs were in good nick so can rule that out. I had a similar thought before they did the compression test. Nothing else could find its way into a cylinder (discounting the turbo etc) and be bouncing around on top of a piston could it? Nah that would smash a piston up too much wouldn't it?

Thanks, JoshT

 

[jtabs]

10 k for a 2nd hand engine is a bit steep
have you considered a rebuild?

Sparra04 - had considered a rebuild yes! would like to give it a go myself. Got a bit of time up my sleeve. I was hoping to try the easy fixes first though. If its not the timing chain and the head is ohk - im inclined to sort this turbo out as old tony suggested.

With regards to the head. I have taken the word of dealer on its condition - well rather that nothing obvious seemed out of place. I know the guy who owns the head shop in town. As the engine is semi naked at the moment - would it be worthwhile removing the head and taking it up to have it checked out? Any suspicious parts I can check if I remove the head?

Cheers, JoshT

 

[jtabs]

I'd be inspecting the turbo.

I couldn't concentrate at uni today so gunned it home at lunchtime to work on the nav. haha. Pulled the turbo off and had a play round with the impeller shaft. It was worse than I first thought! Its pretty stuffed - the bearings are buggered. The compressor fan spins freely and i couldn't get it to make contact with the housing. However I could definitely feel and hear the bearings rattling when I wiggled the shaft. I reckon I was getting about a mil of play. So im hoping this is the clacking noise I have been hearing.

Would it be possible to rebuild the turbo? Or should I get new cartridge or a whole new turbo?

Thanks, JT

 

[sparra04]

the slack in turbo shaft will be your problem
i would buy a new one ,maybee bigger
with an intercooler
regarding head,you are down on compression a little bit,it would be good to have a look, i certainly would if i was keeping car
you are very lucky turbo didnt let go and destroy engine

 

[tweak'e]

could be the noise is combustion rattle from ingesting oil from the turbo.
combustion rattle tends to quieten down at higher boost.

time for a turbo rebuild.

the other possibility is injectors are poor.

metal in the oil ?? not sure on that. i would see what metal it is. get the oil tested that may show if its a wear problem or part failure.

 

[jtabs]

metal in the oil ?? not sure on that. i would see what metal it is. get the oil tested that may show if its a wear problem or part failure.

Could the metal be from the turbo bearings? I only found the filings in the oil filter - none in the sump. Although the dealers had dropped half of the oil before I removed the rest. Nothing was magnetised to the drain plug either.

JT

 

[Lawry]

i dont think it would be metal from the bearings as it only requires a tiny change in tolerance for play. However i would still rebuild the turbo. Cost me 60 to do mine, even though it was balanced i still got it vsr balanced as im running high boost so i wanted the insurance. i still suspect something else.

 

[charlie strayarc]

I don't think its your turbo.
I was same as you, I took turbo off and panicked over the very small up and down movement of the shaft and the slight ticking noise it made while doing this. Blades were not touching housing.
I took it to local turbo place, they had a good look at and told me it would probably go for another 100 000km and to put it back in. I did an intercooler for peace of mind.
How many km on yours?

 

[tweak'e]

any idea on what sort of filings it is?
i'm guessing alloy as it would have to be light enough to be picked up by the oil pump.

i wonder if they had a timing chain problem, fixed it and flicked the ute. any metal from timing chain or front bearings will end up in the sump. might pay to pull the front cover off, radiator out and check the timing chain aera.

 

[jtabs]

I don't think its your turbo.
I was same as you, I took turbo off and panicked over the very small up and down movement of the shaft and the slight ticking noise it made while doing this. Blades were not touching housing.
I took it to local turbo place, they had a good look at and told me it would probably go for another 100 000km and to put it back in. I did an intercooler for peace of mind.
How many km on yours?

Hey Charlie - how much movement did your shaft have? I thought about putting an air gun to it and spinning it up fast to see how she sounds and handles it. Would that cover it? to make sure im not panicking? haha My nav has done 165 thou. yea id like to put an intercooler on her. just have to find an el cheapo. I like the home job conversions that other members have done - like the xr6 setup. cool as

JT

 

[jtabs]

any idea on what sort of filings it is?
i'm guessing alloy as it would have to be light enough to be picked up by the oil pump.

i wonder if they had a timing chain problem, fixed it and flicked the ute. any metal from timing chain or front bearings will end up in the sump. might pay to pull the front cover off, radiator out and check the timing chain area.

yea im pretty sure its alloy. quite fine. I will add a pic.

I have the timing chain cover off and radiator out. I noticed the top sprocket is quite worn. The chain and guides appear in good nick. So im guessing they have replaced the chain and guides but not the sprockets. Anything in the timing chain area I should look at specifically? you mentioned front bearings - what, where and how can I test those. I did notice the bottom of the slack guide was able to slide left to right on a bolt - is this normal?

JT

 

[tweak'e]

was thinking of the timing gears buts thats a major to get to.
just check the cam gears and the gear under it look ok. in case any metal has drop into them.

not sure on the slack guide but i guess it shouldn't slide about. maybe others will have first hand experience with that.