Might be a silly question - but why did you put the headlight in the oven???
Enjoyed the story though....
HID's Too Bright?
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Might be a silly question - but why did you put the headlight in the oven???
Enjoyed the story though....
Black Tonka
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I think to get the burnt rubber residue warm or hot so can it can be cleaned off the lens easier..
Seems to be the latest trend replacing the original headlight bulbs with HID,s. Problem is the majority of the time they are way too bright. All right sitting behind the wheel but to every other poor bugger on the road they can be very annoying if not dangerous. Surprises me how some of these products can be legal on our roads. I do a lot of outback driving and am seeing more and more vehicles with super bright headlights. What annoys me is the fact that I now have to focus on the table drain instead of the approaching vehicle to avoid becoming dazzled. Handy if a kangaroo decides to jump out or old mate drifts on to my side. Knowing how much it annoys me I decided against fitting HID,s to my headlights and fitted them to my spotlights only.
dansD40
Member
I would say he baked the headlight in oven, to heat up the glue that joins the lens to headlight assembly, so he could pull apart. On the HID note, yes they are illegal to non hid factory fitted. All hid light assemblies are required to have self leveling sensors that adjust the light, eg bumps, dips knocks. And also required to have lens washers.. that's why you pay 100k + on kraut mobiles to have this as standard fitment. yes I think there annoying too, to be honest 55w is more than enough to see at night, and if it's still to dark, thats cause your proberly on a secluded or quiet road that has no street lights or cars, hence where hi beam or spotties come in. If you still can't see with that, you should proberly then change optometrists. No offense just find hid annoying.. And yes just another cheap Chinese eBay product Not designed for australian standards that floods the modification market...
Aussie Frontier
Member
HID globes fitted to non HID designed headlights will get you a tow away defect in the ACT as it is deemed the vehicle is unroadworthy.
The issue isnt really about the properly designed globes that are aimed reasonably well but the cheaper imports that just throw light out everywhere.
HID in driving lights is legal but in headlights or Fog lights is definately illegal
If someone is blinding me with bad HID I repay the favour with my 240 Blitz's along with the LED bar.
The issue isnt really about the properly designed globes that are aimed reasonably well but the cheaper imports that just throw light out everywhere.
HID in driving lights is legal but in headlights or Fog lights is definately illegal
If someone is blinding me with bad HID I repay the favour with my 240 Blitz's along with the LED bar.
Last edited:
dansD40
Member
Properly designed globes have self levellers on them, and thats what the ADR require for use. Hence why BMW charge you $1500 a headlight and $350 a globe... eBay sells globes for $8.50. There a joke and the illuminance is nothing close to what the globes really burn at. Shit gas, shit ignitors. U get what you pay for.. That's why they take so long to reach full brightness..
I actually just fitted a set of 35W Hi/Low's off ebay on the weekend just gone. The ones I purchase are these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120818029301?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I think they're a good compromise. As far as I can tell (from behind the wheel, from the feedback from friends I've followed and from other drivers at large through the lack of flashing), they aren't blinding to other folks. They have a very defined end to the beam in the horizontal plane and aren't a greeeeat deal brighter on low beam than the 55/100's halogens I used (and potentially not as good on high beam; that's why I've got driving lights). The 6000k temp however is far superior to the yellowish light of the halogens - much easier on the eyes and much better at filling in the shadows.
I'm interested to read other folks saying they're illegal - I had heard that but decided to give them a try anyway. Might track down the legislation to confirm....and will likely remove them if they are. Don't need to be driving around unroadworthy, as that means uninsured.
Anyway, if you go for 35W HIDs, blinding other folks shouldn't be a drama.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120818029301?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I think they're a good compromise. As far as I can tell (from behind the wheel, from the feedback from friends I've followed and from other drivers at large through the lack of flashing), they aren't blinding to other folks. They have a very defined end to the beam in the horizontal plane and aren't a greeeeat deal brighter on low beam than the 55/100's halogens I used (and potentially not as good on high beam; that's why I've got driving lights). The 6000k temp however is far superior to the yellowish light of the halogens - much easier on the eyes and much better at filling in the shadows.
I'm interested to read other folks saying they're illegal - I had heard that but decided to give them a try anyway. Might track down the legislation to confirm....and will likely remove them if they are. Don't need to be driving around unroadworthy, as that means uninsured.
Anyway, if you go for 35W HIDs, blinding other folks shouldn't be a drama.
dansD40
Member
Don't know what state you live in but in Victoria they are unroadworthy, unless factory fitted.Well last time I checked they were, and that was when I got my roadworthy licence..
dansD40
Member
By the way just wondering if you aimed them after installing, using a beam leveler, or even by sight. See that's where problems arise. Public buy and fit this stuff assuming it's simple DIY but in reality they don't understand what strickt guidelines manufactures must abide buy to produce something as simple as a headlight.. I don't mean to come down on u heavy, they properly aren't to bad as you described. But just hate supporting imported products that really are pointless, and make it so hard for the rest of to modify our vehicles in other ways that can make a safer difference, and give police and vicroads the perfect reason to ban just about all modifications in total.
G'day Dan,
ACT.
Not sure if I'm looking in the right place, but I can't seem to find any reference to it in the vehicle registration legislation:
http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/2000-12/current/pdf/2000-12.pdf
Yeah, I'm familar enough with working on cars to understand the aiming of the lights. As it turned out, the most intense area of the HID's was actually lower than that of the halogens. The thing I did find odd was that in switiching between high and low beam, the intense region of the light changed vertically. That bit I'm not so sure about...
ACT.
Not sure if I'm looking in the right place, but I can't seem to find any reference to it in the vehicle registration legislation:
http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/2000-12/current/pdf/2000-12.pdf
Yeah, I'm familar enough with working on cars to understand the aiming of the lights. As it turned out, the most intense area of the HID's was actually lower than that of the halogens. The thing I did find odd was that in switiching between high and low beam, the intense region of the light changed vertically. That bit I'm not so sure about...
dansD40
Member
Look at section 1, are they ADR approved and ask the supplier. There's your answer 
Aussie Frontier
Member
Ok, here are the ADR's regarding HID headlamps and normal headlamps...
Links here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
Quote
Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
Quote
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex 8).
So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
Quote
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
Quote
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Quote
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.
Quote
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
Quote
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.
(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)
Quote
6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
So there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self levelling, doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
Actually, technically ANY retrofit is illegal, due to the lack of relevant testing and certification (read ADR 77 for the testing method if you can't sleep...), but if you follow the above, your HID retrofit will at least be technically compliant and won't blind me when I drive past!
Links here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
Quote
Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
Quote
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex 8).
So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
Quote
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
Quote
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Quote
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.
Quote
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
Quote
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.
(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)
Quote
6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
So there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self levelling, doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
Actually, technically ANY retrofit is illegal, due to the lack of relevant testing and certification (read ADR 77 for the testing method if you can't sleep...), but if you follow the above, your HID retrofit will at least be technically compliant and won't blind me when I drive past!
dansD40
Member
What did I tell ya
Aussie Frontier
Member
Hey I just copied and pasted lol someone else did all the hard work.
Found it on Mobileelectronics.com.au.
Just cos the cops dont pull you up on them doesnt mean they are legal. I have a line of LEDs across the bottom of the tailgate that arent actually legal as there has to be a set distance between brake lights. The cops reckon they look kool when ever I have been asked about them but they still arent legal ,not overly worried about them though as they arent about to be the cause of an accident etc . Bright headlights or badly aligned headlight will cause issues though.
Basically the headlight reflector is designed for the burning element to be in a set position and thats a quartz globe with the element running horizontally. The HID burning arc runs front to back so its going to throw light all over the place.The HID fitting is usually a projector type lense fitting to properly focus the light and contain the stray beams.
Found it on Mobileelectronics.com.au.
Just cos the cops dont pull you up on them doesnt mean they are legal. I have a line of LEDs across the bottom of the tailgate that arent actually legal as there has to be a set distance between brake lights. The cops reckon they look kool when ever I have been asked about them but they still arent legal ,not overly worried about them though as they arent about to be the cause of an accident etc . Bright headlights or badly aligned headlight will cause issues though.
Basically the headlight reflector is designed for the burning element to be in a set position and thats a quartz globe with the element running horizontally. The HID burning arc runs front to back so its going to throw light all over the place.The HID fitting is usually a projector type lense fitting to properly focus the light and contain the stray beams.
Thanks for posting that up; very interesting indeed. Seems that what follows is now moot, as I'll be pulling them out. Last thing I need is to be involved in an accident and be considered uninsured due to an unroadworth vehicle.
For the sake of interest:
Given the way in which the web is infected with broad, sweeping statements on all subject matter (including HID's), I decided to do some testing. Like anyone else, I've been blinded by folks with HIDs in the past...but having driven with my HIDs for a week, I just did not believe they would be subjecting other folks to a blinding. So, I set up a test. Now I will say off the bat that this is clearly far from impirical, however it was a best effort to an indication of the effect of my particular globes on other folks.
To start with, I got a couple of friends (one with a Commodore, one with an old Triton) and found a lightly used, unlit road and did some back to back testing. I should note at this point that I did not change the aim of the headlights one iota; not through manual adjustment, nor the load adjustement in the cabing. The test involved my driving towards them using first HID on low, then swapping globes and running the Halogen on low, then swapping globes and running the HID on high, then swapping globes again and running the Halogen on high. On each occasion I took the opportunity to swap with the Commodore driver to experience it for myself. Again, not impirical, but sufficent to give me some indication on just how bright the lamps are.
End result was:
- HID vs Halogen low beam: HID marginally more intense than Halogen, but by no means 'blinding'. The HIDs also have a bit more range, but its not substancial. The former was given consensus amongst all drivers, the latter was disagreed to by one.
- HID vs Halogen high beam: HID far more annoying/blinding than the 100W halogen, especially in the Commodore. This wasn't in any way surprising given the fact that, for some reason, the beam seems to lift on high beam. This doesn't happen on the halogens, so I'm not sure what's going on there. The range of the Halogens actually seems a lot better than the HID's, however the light thrown by the HIDs is definatley nicer for the driver.....clearly at the expense of oncoming cars. The consensus of all preceeding statements was across the board.
So......I will now reclaim my sanity. The fact is, that in the 5 odd days of running the kit, I have never been flashed and have never had complains from friends or family that I've followed. From the standpoint of the folks involved in the aforementetioned tests, the particular globes I had fitted are _no worse_ than my 55W halogens on low beam as far as blinding other drivers is concerned. It is plausible that my lights are aimed lower than others, though I don't expect that's the case - the range on them seems 'normal' compared to my wifes car. Again, the testing wasn't impirical, but was sufficiently indiciative to me that all retrofitted HIDs are not the devils bane of other drivers. I will concede to having a sneaking suspicion that my choice of 35W HIDs over the 55W models may have made a significant difference here; but I'm not about to shell out for some 55W HIDs just to find out.
In any case......what is clear is that making broad, sweeping statements that 'HIDs are blinding' is not accurate. It depends on a number of factors, many of which won't be known by the person making the statement.
What is impirical, however, is that they are clearly illegal as a retrofit, going Aussie Frontier's post. On that basis, I'll pull mine out this weekend and stick them in my race car (where 'legal' is not an issue). Unroadworthy means uninsured - which isn't something I'm interested in.
Has been an interesting and educational experience though......
For the sake of interest:
Given the way in which the web is infected with broad, sweeping statements on all subject matter (including HID's), I decided to do some testing. Like anyone else, I've been blinded by folks with HIDs in the past...but having driven with my HIDs for a week, I just did not believe they would be subjecting other folks to a blinding. So, I set up a test. Now I will say off the bat that this is clearly far from impirical, however it was a best effort to an indication of the effect of my particular globes on other folks.
To start with, I got a couple of friends (one with a Commodore, one with an old Triton) and found a lightly used, unlit road and did some back to back testing. I should note at this point that I did not change the aim of the headlights one iota; not through manual adjustment, nor the load adjustement in the cabing. The test involved my driving towards them using first HID on low, then swapping globes and running the Halogen on low, then swapping globes and running the HID on high, then swapping globes again and running the Halogen on high. On each occasion I took the opportunity to swap with the Commodore driver to experience it for myself. Again, not impirical, but sufficent to give me some indication on just how bright the lamps are.
End result was:
- HID vs Halogen low beam: HID marginally more intense than Halogen, but by no means 'blinding'. The HIDs also have a bit more range, but its not substancial. The former was given consensus amongst all drivers, the latter was disagreed to by one.
- HID vs Halogen high beam: HID far more annoying/blinding than the 100W halogen, especially in the Commodore. This wasn't in any way surprising given the fact that, for some reason, the beam seems to lift on high beam. This doesn't happen on the halogens, so I'm not sure what's going on there. The range of the Halogens actually seems a lot better than the HID's, however the light thrown by the HIDs is definatley nicer for the driver.....clearly at the expense of oncoming cars. The consensus of all preceeding statements was across the board.
So......I will now reclaim my sanity. The fact is, that in the 5 odd days of running the kit, I have never been flashed and have never had complains from friends or family that I've followed. From the standpoint of the folks involved in the aforementetioned tests, the particular globes I had fitted are _no worse_ than my 55W halogens on low beam as far as blinding other drivers is concerned. It is plausible that my lights are aimed lower than others, though I don't expect that's the case - the range on them seems 'normal' compared to my wifes car. Again, the testing wasn't impirical, but was sufficiently indiciative to me that all retrofitted HIDs are not the devils bane of other drivers. I will concede to having a sneaking suspicion that my choice of 35W HIDs over the 55W models may have made a significant difference here; but I'm not about to shell out for some 55W HIDs just to find out.
In any case......what is clear is that making broad, sweeping statements that 'HIDs are blinding' is not accurate. It depends on a number of factors, many of which won't be known by the person making the statement.
What is impirical, however, is that they are clearly illegal as a retrofit, going Aussie Frontier's post. On that basis, I'll pull mine out this weekend and stick them in my race car (where 'legal' is not an issue). Unroadworthy means uninsured - which isn't something I'm interested in.
Has been an interesting and educational experience though......
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Aussie Frontier
Member
Apart from the Legal /Illegal argument the main deal appears to be that some units are far better quality than others.For instance a quality genuine Bosch unit may not have any glare issues at all where as a cheap chinese copy of a Hella may scatter light in all directions.
The other thing is the type of headlight your actually fitting them too. For instance in a Mazda 3 with projector style lenses HID will actually still work really well and shouldnt blind anyone even though there is no self leveling or washers. Put the same HID kit in a falcadore and you will have light going anywhere and everywhere.
At the end of the day they are more than likely deemed illegal as its too hard to regulate what is coming into the country with Ebay selling Top Quality Genuine copies .Its one of the biggest down sides to the internet. Yes we now have far more to choose from but that means buying "genuine" isnt always a sure thing of getting the right gear.
The other thing is the type of headlight your actually fitting them too. For instance in a Mazda 3 with projector style lenses HID will actually still work really well and shouldnt blind anyone even though there is no self leveling or washers. Put the same HID kit in a falcadore and you will have light going anywhere and everywhere.
At the end of the day they are more than likely deemed illegal as its too hard to regulate what is coming into the country with Ebay selling Top Quality Genuine copies .Its one of the biggest down sides to the internet. Yes we now have far more to choose from but that means buying "genuine" isnt always a sure thing of getting the right gear.
dansD40
Member
Man you guys think too much lol. Anyways least you got you answer in the end. And you said you got that from Aussie,, I told you so plain an simple right from the start.. Aussie just came in and took over with 6 coffees worth of babble. Lmao.. Bet he didn't believe me at first either bout the levelers and washers... I'm bloody good.......... Lol
I installed a HID set from fleabay. The light output was insane I never got flashed till I drove to QLD 12 months after the install I reliased they were reversed wired to the D40 so My low beam was the HID high beam on its circuit. Changed the terminals around in the H4 plug n play and was fixed. Except the low beam was terrible as the filament is in a different place to halogen.
Aussie Frontier
Member
Actually this is about the 20th time this dicussion has been brought up and I knew already what was what. I just thought I would back up your statement with the actual docco so that noone could come back with What ifs
I found an article ages ago about how HID light tricks our eyes into thinking its brighter and thats in one of the previous versions of this thread.
And my view is the headlight reflector is designed for Quartz so the HID burn pattern will never work properly .
