Losing control

[CarlJT]

Can anyone explain or help me understand how in a slightly wet road, any soft braking will cause my wheels to lock. Only now to finally spin out into a post. I have almost brand new geolander go15s. Mostly happens on worn tar parts of road where it is slippery. But shouldn't lose complete control? Thought it was worn tyres so got new ones. Still same problem. Never happened untill about last 3 months. Pads are only a couple years old, they work great in dry, but just slightly pressing in slippery conditions causes complete lock up... then loss of control. Any suggestions? I assume it's something suspension related rather than brake's but unsure what could cause this?

 

[tweak'e]

what wheel is locking up?
are you hearing squealing off the tire when you lock up?
getting flat spots on the tires?

 

[CarlJT]

what wheel is locking up?
are you hearing squealing off the tire when you lock up?
getting flat spots on the tires?

Unsure, went left off road , have heard squealing off right front.
No noticeable flat spots

 

[Old.Tony]

I'm surprised the ABS hasn't kicked in. Has someone possibly disabled the ABS? What happens if you (deliberately) take it on a straight loose gravel and at 25km/h you hit the anchors - do you feel the ABS operating?

How long since the car's had a wheel alignment?

 

[tweak'e]

I'm surprised the ABS hasn't kicked in.

a lot of them don't have abs. none of our 3 D22's had abs.

 

[tweak'e]

Unsure, went left off road , have heard squealing off right front.
No noticeable flat spots

if you lock one side up it can most certainly throw you. i've had that happen in a bad patch of road. hit the bumps wrong, loose traction brake locks, that throws you sideways a bit. correctable but eats up stopping room. that particle bit of road has claimed many people.

if its constantly locking up one wet roads then you have a tire issue. either bad tires or to much air pressure.
or its a driver issue, to hot into the corner.

 

[tweak'e]

btw what exact tires do you have. need exact model number.
just having a quick look, they make a passenger and a light truck version of the most likely size you have. if you have the passenger ones fitted it would cause big problems.

 

[CarlJT]

btw what exact tires do you have. need exact model number.
just having a quick look, they make a passenger and a light truck version of the most likely size you have. if you have the passenger ones fitted it would cause big problems.

265 70r16 02 zd30 stock is like 255 65 however had these size for years

 

[CarlJT]

if you lock one side up it can most certainly throw you. i've had that happen in a bad patch of road. hit the bumps wrong, loose traction brake locks, that throws you sideways a bit. correctable but eats up stopping room. that particle bit of road has claimed many people.

if its constantly locking up one wet roads then you have a tire issue. either bad tires or to much air pressure.
or its a driver issue, to hot into the corner.

I'm not sure weather it is due to locking up however, it isnt abs so intial locking up can be both, due to braking. To me it seems more of the mechanical suspension/steering system however I'm unsure what could cause this. I got new front rear shocks about 1 year ago. I had alignment with new tyres other week. Which may have made it worse

 

[CarlJT]

I'm surprised the ABS hasn't kicked in. Has someone possibly disabled the ABS? What happens if you (deliberately) take it on a straight loose gravel and at 25km/h you hit the anchors - do you feel the ABS operating?

How long since the car's had a wheel alignment?

Every 6-12 months always had inside wheels wearing + always slides left, has improved over years but still some issue.

 

[Been a while]

Howdy man, i dont know what model you have but,,,, a trick to finding whats going on with your brakes is to find a flat dirt/stone road and hit the brakes hard at a fast walking pace..
Jump out and look at what wheel/s are braking first, or, not at all!!! Most likely rear brakes need a PROPER 100'000 k service and adjustments and the front also... I can just about guarantee the front calipers will be well past thier PROPER service and the lower pistons will be seized, if not both sides definitely the front left lower caliper will be..
In the past, If you have been told that your brakes are fine and that they have had a fluid change/flush blah blah "and they have not serviced your calipers" -you need to find a new mechanic!

There is a very good reason why the manual states what it does regarding service periods on calipers..

Once those lower pistons seize "and they will- they all do, all cars can do it!" 9 times out of 10 it's one side first- this caliper is working over time!
With only one piston working it can boil the crap left from the last crap service and you now have a balance issue, or no brakes at all....NOT GOOD HUH...

You can not remove old fluid and contaminates that settle at the lower pistons and bores by changing just fluids - don't be told different!
Sure doesn't hurt to change fluids but you eventually should be doing the service when noted in the manual... if not sooner, it's your brakes!

I have noticed on my 03 d22 that if you don't keep the rear drums well serviced and adjusted the front will start to brake traction when "braking into corners"...
I'm just about to clean and adjust the rear drums on mine and if that doesn't fix it, well, it's back to the front and a complete caliper service.. Front calipers can't be adjusted and if one side is stronger than the other "engaging first" that would tell me it's a seized piston from crap or from a worn piston and bore- from doing over 300000ks...

Another great way to see what brakes are doing is to compair the heat from each one, have you got a lazer thermometer? If so, do a quick block'y and hit the brakes a few good times then temp read and compair front left to right and left and right at the rear... if one side "Front or rear" is working overtime and hotter than the other side you know you have issues..


Drums or discs on the rear? Do any Navs come out with rear disc brakes??? Anyway,,,

I'm not up will the abs systems and wouldn't go there, but if you have a window winder model I can help...

All the best

 

[CarlJT]

Howdy man, i dont know what model you have but,,,, a trick to finding whats going on with your brakes is to find a flat dirt/stone road and hit the brakes hard at a fast walking pace..
Jump out and look at what wheel/s are braking first, or, not at all!!! Most likely rear brakes need a PROPER 100'000 k service and adjustments and the front also... I can just about guarantee the front calipers will be well past thier PROPER service and the lower pistons will be seized, if not both sides definitely the front left lower caliper will be..
In the past, If you have been told that your brakes are fine and that they have had a fluid change/flush blah blah "and they have not serviced your calipers" -you need to find a new mechanic!

There is a very good reason why the manual states what it does regarding service periods on calipers..

Once those lower pistons seize "and they will- they all do, all cars can do it!" 9 times out of 10 it's one side first- this caliper is working over time!
With only one piston working it can boil the crap left from the last crap service and you now have a balance issue, or no brakes at all....NOT GOOD HUH...

You can not remove old fluid and contaminates that settle at the lower pistons and bores by changing just fluids - don't be told different!
Sure doesn't hurt to change fluids but you eventually should be doing the service when noted in the manual... if not sooner, it's your brakes!

I have noticed on my 03 d22 that if you don't keep the rear drums well serviced and adjusted the front will start to brake traction when "braking into corners"...
I'm just about to clean and adjust the rear drums on mine and if that doesn't fix it, well, it's back to the front and a complete caliper service.. Front calipers can't be adjusted and if one side is stronger than the other "engaging first" that would tell me it's a seized piston from crap or from a worn piston and bore- from doing over 300000ks...

Another great way to see what brakes are doing is to compair the heat from each one, have you got a lazer thermometer? If so, do a quick block'y and hit the brakes a few good times then temp read and compair front left to right and left and right at the rear... if one side "Front or rear" is working overtime and hotter than the other side you know you have issues..


Drums or discs on the rear? Do any Navs come out with rear disc brakes??? Anyway,,,

I'm not up will the abs systems and wouldn't go there, but if you have a window winder model I can help...

All the best

Probably have to do replacing braking system. 400k+ on clock. Drums on rear... Will check on gravel in morning. Haven't been to mechanics for while but 2 year old pads.

 

[Been a while]

Do you mean it PULLED to the left? To me if it did -you'd think the caliper is locking up... Same issue same tissue if it is the "left" it has most likely been doing this for a very very very long time..
People wont notice a siezed piston because the brakes still work to a degree and it's not untill they tow or jump on them they find out they have a crap mechanic...
And because people don't notice it, this heats the caliper up to the stage it boils the lube from the pins and they seize or the fluid boils and you lose ALL brakes..
I just read your post again and have no idea what that is your driving, but if it's a right hand drive my money's on seized pins and pistons, left caliper ... just say'n..

I'd say she's heated up that much over time it's boiled out the pin lube and you have seized caliper pins! How many k's on it? When was the last time you put a caliper kit through it?


Who running the bets - $20 on front calipers j.k

All the best

 

[Been a while]

Oh shite, and the last caliper SERVICE

 

[CarlJT]

Do you mean it PULLED to the left? To me if it did -you'd think the caliper is locking up... Same issue same tissue if it is the "left" it has most likely been doing this for a very very very long time..
People wont notice a siezed piston because the brakes still work to a degree and it's not untill they tow or jump on them they find out they have a crap mechanic...
And because people don't notice it, this heats the caliper up to the stage it boils the lube from the pins and they seize or the fluid boils and you lose ALL brakes..
I just read your post again and have no idea what that is your driving, but if it's a right hand drive my money's on seized pins and pistons, left caliper ... just say'n..

I'd say she's heated up that much over time it's boiled out the pin lube and you have seized caliper pins! How many k's on it? When was the last time you put a caliper kit through it?


Who running the bets - $20 on front calipers j.k

All the best

Will replace them. Can't trust mechanics so don't go if avoidable... Never done calipers so may be on original for all I know. It has always pulled left regardless of braking. Heard it's notorious in these models. Has improved with different alignments. Roads camber left also

 

[Been a while]

Pad wear can also tell you what your brakes are doing! The lazy piston will show wear on one part of the pad and not show even pad wear, this will be on the piston side pad!
Not sure what rims you have but have a look and see if the piston side pads are showing uneven wear.. one part of the pad will be thicker than the other and the pad will look like a wedge..

With 2 years on those pads the writing will be on the wall my man.. with 4000000000000000ks on her I know what the wall says

Now im not being a smartarse but just looking out for folk, brakes are a specialist field, if youve never done them nor been taught id suggest being very wize when it comes to brakes.. find a trusted mechanic...

I don't mean to be forward, but, if your close and dont want to domthe job, have floor space and cover- I need the work!

 

[Been a while]

Yeah I don't trust them either...

 

[tweak'e]

Every 6-12 months always had inside wheels wearing + always slides left, has improved over years but still some issue.

wheel alignment is out. quite possible it has worn bushes or loose A arm. i have had it on another vehicle where it will pull to the side under brakes due to a loose A arm.

the other things with brakes is make sure the rears are adjusted correctly. with no rears you will get a soft brake pedal then bang the fronts kick in suddenly.
the rears should brake first which stabilises the vehicle under brakes.

 

[tweak'e]

265 70r16

need EXACT model number of the tire. there can be two different model tires for that size. (that size doesn't show up on their web site.)

 

[CarlJT]

Yeah I don't trust them either...

Where to find new calipers?
Just need repair kit?