Turbo pipe sucking flat please help!

[NAV2795]

Hi all,
Went 4x4ing just locally the other day in my 2007 2.5L diesel spain built, and half way through I suddenly lost power, could not get enough speed to get out of first gear. I got off the track and called a mate who came to lend a hand. we found that when the turbo is meant to kick in at 2000rpm the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler was sucking flat, which should normally be under pressure. Also some oil was coming from the bottom of this pipe near the intercooler however I believe this is normal. I turned the car off and fiddled around for a while, then once I restarted the car it was good as gold, the car ran perfect? I've done around 300km since then and haven't had the same problem yet, could the turbo had seized for some reason and just unseized itself? Any reply's will be appreciated

 

[navaranewb]

this is somewhat normal as the rubber piping goes soft under heat and high boost situations.

can replace it with a hard pipe or place a bit inside the rubber hose to stop if sucking flat

 

[Old.Tony]

Hot piping does it, but that side (between the turbo and the intercooler) should have been positively pressured so the root cause is elsewhere.

I suspect either:

* Vacuum pump or vacuum lines
* Vacuum solenoid *likely*
* Turbo actuator sticky/failing
* Turbo vanes sticky

When you had the car stopped with the bonnet up and revved it to 2,000rpm the engine would have been sucking air like mad (1,244 litres of air per minute if my mental math widget is still functioning after my 6th glass). If the turbo has its vanes positioned to NOT allow the turbine to spin up, there's your problem - no boost at all, so the engine develops a vacuum and a hose designed for pressure suddenly collapses. No real surprise, actually.

I'd check the actuator for free movement. I'd check the vacuum hoses to make sure they're all 100% - even if they rotate on the barb without much force, they're toast. I'd also check the solenoid and make sure its connector is clean - to be sure, take it apart, electrical contact cleaner (about $9-$10 from Jaycar) and reconnect. Should solve the problem.

While you've got that spray can handy, you might consider giving your MAFS a clean. Grab your tools and undo the MAFS from the rear of the air intake just outside the air filter box. Be careful, this device is a tidy $400 so don't drop it or poke things into it. Just spray it from the outside until the liquid runs clear, allow it a few moments to air-dry then reinstall.

Just a side note - your turbo should be spinning at idle, and should be strongly heading upwards at 1500rpm. The engine is producing its maximum torque at 2,000rpm but the turbocharger doesn't produce its maximum air until over 4,000rpm (and at 4,000rpm she's glugging at least 2500 litres of air per minute, and that's without compressing it to provide more power).

 

[4 naving]

Also check the air intake. if you have a snorkel or even just the normal air box it may of sucked in something and its still in there waiting to pop back up.

 

[unkn0wn]

Agree'd with all posts here.

my MQ patrol sucked in its joiners was when the turbo died, and the engine was trying desperately to suck air past the non rotating turbo blades.
it also sucked in its intake pipe when the air filter was full of mud (and wouldn't make boost also)

d21 used to suck in the intake pipe when it got super hot and sticky...but this is the pipe from turbo to air-box...not your hot pipe.

the hot pipe should only suck closed if your engines trying to suck air against resistance.
I would check your airbox/pre-filter and snorkel for anything that should not be there (lots of dirt usually).

then i would move onto everything from Old Tony post.

 

[NAV2795]

Thanks heaps all, really appreciate it. I'll definetly give all your suggestions a try. Also where are the actuator and vacuum hoses located, sorry but being 18 still trying to get my head around all the components
Cheers

 

[jjohn]

The actuator arm comes off the turbo down to vaccum diaphragm.
The vaccum hoses off it to an electric solenoid.

 

[Old.Tony]

Here's my engine bay with the bits labelled (sorry, I had the two Germans relocated to the rear sauna while I took the photo):

Just to the left (as you are looking at the picture) of the silver pipe marked "Air Cond Line" is a round gold-coloured device. This is the actuator sitting on top of the turbocharger. Vacuum line comes off the top and heads away, and underneath reaching into the turbocharger is the actuator arm that moves the turbocharger vanes to change the pressure on the turbine (and therefore the boost pressure).

 

[NAV2795]

Thanks for the replys boys, sorry for the late reply computer died 2 weeks ago! cheers

 

[xdo]

Sorry for digging up old thread, my son told me couple days ago, about his car " the one i own before 2007/ Spain over 100,000.00 a bit" lost power, he took to mechanic checked, and they said turbocharge problem??? he did not want to leave ute in workshop, he was worry about "radiator" last couple months ago. Can you guy tell me how to check turbocharge dead, I did on GM471, GM671, Cummin & Garner engine when i was young, mainly i managed to repair by experience but not theory in school....thanks in advance...

 

[Old.Tony]

Turbocharger problems usually mean lots of black smoke.

There are a number of things to check.

1) Start the car and idle it. On the top of the turbocharger is a round gold thing - that's the actuator. Underneath (going vertically down into the turbocharger) is an arm. When the car is idling, this arm should be moving. If it's not, you could have loose/burnt/damaged/cracked vacuum hoses (cheap fix) or a faulty solenoid (or the solenoid's electrical connections). The solenoid sits on the hard pipe that enters the intercooler on the left-hand-side of the engine bay towards the front, fairly low down.

2) Ballooning or collapsing hoses. Pop the bonnet and have someone rev the car to about 2500-3000rpm then release, then rev and release. Watch the hoses between the turbocharger and the intercooler (mostly up high on the left side) and between the intercooler and intake manifold (mostly low on the right-hand side). The air intake pipe before the turbo shouldn't collapse if it's a factory one - they're pretty strong.

3) Dirty intercooler - the car may idle okay if it's a dirty intercooler, but it will struggle to breathe at driving revs. Intercooler outlet hose should be stable, inlet hose (turbo outlet) should balloon like mad.

4) Charge air piping damage - should be fairly obvious, look for signs of black oily deposits sprayed into the engine bay.

5) Faulty or failed EGR valve/piping/ It's the gold coloured pipe that heads around the front of the motor. Look for signs of black sooty deposits from this pipe. Blocking both ends IS a viable option.

There's a start, anyway!

 

[xdo]

Thanks quick reply Old.Tony, I did little check this afternoon, speedo 94,000km
No black smoke either high rev, saw all the hose look good and clean, i'll check all over advice tomorrow. Last time when changed radiator, I saw the intercooler very dirty, black oil built up on the rubber hose, maybe I have to remove and clean it up. Just one thing I don't know what's wrong? the oil always over level mark on stick, never refill between service either son had long travel, I think fuel injector too rich and run into the sum, or leaking fuel somewhere into the sum. I remembered I had similar problem when I repaired Cummin engine long time ago, the fuel was leak from fuel pump "O ring" and run into the sum, but I think this one difference story. Thanks for your advise

 

[Old.Tony]

If you're getting diesel in to the sump it's probably from the fuel injector seals. It's happened before and it can easily cause runaway - where the PCV flow causes enough combustible fluid to enter the intake manifold that the engine runs even after switching it off. There are two ways to stop a runaway diesel - remove the PCV, or block the air intake.

 

[xdo]

Thanks Old.Tony, the arm of actuator moving when the engine is idling, i removed intercooler put aside for cleanup over night, tried to look around PVC or air intake do the job as your suggestions, but can't see where are they? could you tell me, where they are, please.

 

[Old.Tony]

PCV hose goes from the top of the engine at the rear and connects to the air intake just forward of the turbocharger's inlet.

Here's a pic from my garage. Looking at the pic, you can see the turbocharger actuator roughly in the centre. Just to the left in the picture is a hose covered in silver wrapping - that's the PCV hose.

 

[xdo]

Today, i put intercooler back, remove PVC hose and block it, block air intake side either, when engine run at high rev, the oil comes out from dipstick, i think when i remove PVC hose and block that side, if engine runs at high rev, pressure goes down the sump, and push the oil goes to dipstick like breather, so what i can do to stop that, leave it open and run the hose to the engine block side.

 

[Old.Tony]

Don't block the PCV, run it through a catch can. Forefront Industries sell a good one.

 

[xdo]

Will order one, thanks for your help....

 

[xdo]

Hi, Old.Tony, i got product "catch can" yesterday, size little big hard to find the room to place it, finally i found the room, maybe service in future little bit hard but.....here catch can sat in the car, after finish, son took for short drive up on the hill, look his face smile now, the power get back, once again thanks for your advice