Labor to win on September 14th.

[KraftyPg]

Awe cmon Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt don't have political bias, they are journalists, they are well renowned journalists, who understand the importance of reporting the news and news related stories in an unbiased manner. Ask Andrew Bolt about climate change and how one rain drop somehow means that the drought is over and climate change is a work of fiction, you'll see he's a totally neutral reporter.

 

[siringo]

You can already get Smart TV's that offer Quickflix/Netflix for movies, free news app, weather. I can get all my TV shows from itunes straight after airing in the states. What the hell would i want Weather effected satelitte foxtel with ads for? You can even get a foxtel app on samsung tv if you desperate.

Yep, that's correct, so why do we need an NBN at all if all that is already possible???

I know people will say "so we can watch it as we download it", or, as they say, stream it! But do we really need to access stuff instantly???

Murdoch knows his bottom line is in trouble with the NBN in every household, why buy the paper when you can get your news free online. Bye bye printer media, Fairfax & News LTD.

But again, we can already do all that without the/an NBN, so why do we need an NBN?? I think we'll see Murdoch and the other large media/news companies change their business models significantly in the next 10 years, obtaining the news is so easy now.


I was content in my belief that the NBN is the 21st century equivalent of the 20th century telephone network. I believed it to be a good thing, but now I'm not so sure.

I can see the benefits for medical practices/hospitals/schools government agencies, but I'm not sold on it being a 'must have' for private residences, but it's the private residences area where all the votes are and this is possibly the best example of why a technical project has become so political.

I live in area where there is only Telstra infrastructure, so we are limited to ISP's who use/on sell Telstra services. We can only obtain ADSL 1 speeds because it's not financially viable for Telstra to upgrade the exchange (this is what I've been led to believe). We also pay an additional $10/mth for the priviledge of using a Telstra port in their exchange (a fee I've not been able to work out what for).

If I were running the show I'd upgrade all regional exchange so they could handle ADSL 2+, that would appease the out of towners, then I'd put a working committee in place and worry about it later.

I have no idea, but I reckon you'd be able to do that for less than $30-$40 billion??????

 

[BJJ84]

new voice to the thread... has been a good read so far LOL!

I think we're screwed no matter which government is running the place until they both stop spending the majority of their time pointing and blaming the other party for everything and get back to doing what's best for the country and its' people.

I'm a Liberal supporter but I can see that the LNP has it's issues and I can also see the the ALP has done some good things, I really didn't expect to have a mortgage interest rate of under 6% while Labour has been in office.

Both PARTIES have the potential to do good things, they just need better leaders...

 

[KraftyPg]

It's not $40 billion now. Costello came out this morning babbling on about the actual costs being $90 billion for Labors NBN plan. Typical Liberal Party though he couldn't and wouldn't elaborate on how he came to those costs, all he'd say is that their half arsed version is costing to cost about 3/4's of the full version.

The question shouldn't be "why is the NBN costing $40mill" it should be, "why is the Libs version, which is a shadow of what the Labor version is, actually going to cost $30mill." It should be costing shitloads less since we are getting shitloads less.

 

[siringo]

new voice to the thread... has been a good read so far LOL!

I think we're screwed no matter which government is running the place until they both stop spending the majority of their time pointing and blaming the other party for everything and get back to doing what's best for the country and its' people.

I'm a Liberal supporter but I can see that the LNP has it's issues and I can also see the the ALP has done some good things, I really didn't expect to have a mortgage interest rate of under 6% while Labour has been in office.

Both PARTIES have the potential to do good things, they just need better leaders...

Yes, totally agree, 100%.
We live in a blue ribbon Liberal area. I'm going to vote Green, never had before. Why? It'll make no difference to the outcome, I love going up the bush and I think society should take more interest in the environment.
They say your vote is important and you should value it, but really, here, it makes no difference, it's so one sided.

It's not $40 billion now. Costello came out this morning babbling on about the actual costs being $90 billion for Labors NBN plan. Typical Liberal Party though he couldn't and wouldn't elaborate on how he came to those costs, all he'd say is that their half arsed version is costing to cost about 3/4's of the full version.

The question shouldn't be "why is the NBN costing $40mill" it should be, "why is the Libs version, which is a shadow of what the Labor version is, actually going to cost $30mill." It should be costing shitloads less since we are getting shitloads less.

I haven't been keeping up with it Krafty, can barely listen to it any more, but I reckon you meant $30billion. Yep, I agree, why so much? If the LNP plan is so much smaller and delivering less, surely it must cost so much less.

 

[KraftyPg]

Give it a few hours and Costello and Shrek will have their figure down to 30mill and Labor's figure up to 140bill.

 

[Biscuits]

siringo,

My mistake, the TV's i refer to are designed with these features. As the other countries who buy them have been rolling fiber for years before us. However if you have one of these TV's in Australia unless your living next door to your exchange on ADSL2+ you would be hard pressed using any of the add features aside from the EPG.

The NBN FTTP is needed in this country.

The main reason the LNP have been throwing the $90bn figure around. Conveniently 2 days before the Fox Sports i mean LNP Fraudband launch. Was to divert from the fact that as Krafty so correctly puts it. The LNP Fraudband plan will cost $30bn (without the cost of Telstra's copper included) for 75% of the capacity.

For business people and people who will rely on the NBN (Krafty most likely included), it's not all about the download speed. It's the up speed that is important.

I agree, being able to watch i movie while it's downloading will be nice. But i would imagine that sending a customer a graphic file in a matter of minutes would be far more useful to people than sending it over 5 hour (if you don't get a drop-out and start again).

The LNP has been pulling the wool over peoples eyes on this topic for a long time spreading misinformation and often downright lies. Turnbull himself in his first question about copper lifespan left said it himself. "Noone knows, it could be as little as 5 years". So if the LNP is so good with money, why do they intend to spend $30 BILLION on a system that is obsolete before it has begun (the rest of the world is upgrading from FTTN to FTTP) and may only last as little as 5 years.

The copper cost Telstra around $1 Billion a year to maintain. Why keep that cost going? When you add the $30 Billion + copper maint $1Bn/year + Telstras fee $11Bn or higher. I think you'll find it's not Faster or more Affordable

 

[KraftyPg]

Yeah upload speed is more important to me and while I am a tight arse and don't want to pay extra for my service I also don't want to be forced to pay out of my pocket to get fibre from my house to the cabinet. We will all pay for it in taxes but Rabbit wants us each to fork out for the cost of the portion of the NBN he doesn't want to implement.

 

[siringo]

It's going to be interesting to see what impact this NBN argument will have on the election outcome.

I believe the vast majority of people don't understand what all the talk is about.

If that's the case, then people will go with either, the team that offers the best (in this case, that will mean the fastest) solution, hence Labor or the team that offers the cheapest solution, hence Liberal.

Or, they won't even consider it.

So what I believe that means, is that this multi billion dollar debate we're talking about may be a non event to many if not most voters.

So whoever gets voted in is/will/may spend a hell of alot of money on something the majority of people don't understand and/or care about.

And that's the biggest issue I have with this project.

Imagine what they could do if they put that amount of money into healthcare and education (famous last words)....

 

[Biscuits]

Wabbitt still believe an ipad is something his daughters use at that time of the month.

 

[KraftyPg]

It's true the vast majority don't understand. It's now up to the government to sell the idea, not continually bag out the opposition plan, just sell theirs, the ineffectiveness of the Libs plan will come out by itself if the labor party advertise their side properly. However past records indicate that wont happen.

 

[Biscuits]

Yes, unfortunately Labour are better at coming up with good plans than selling the plans.

Which ironically is the opposite of LNP. Shit at making good plans, but can sell you a dud and you don't know until it's too late.

 

[Biscuits]

siringo,

You are correct. The problem if that the vast majority of Aussie voters are uninformed or just don't give a shit. They vote how the papers and poll tell them to vote or worse still how their parents voted. Habit voting is the worst kind.

Yes the money could be spent elsewhere always can be, but when the copper we have fails which it will and shortly. The cost of maintenance will increase, meaning service costs increase. This country will be left behind the rest of the world.

Labours NBN is a one service fits all, future proof solution. If you know the subject, it can't be argued that it is money well spent and well needed infrastructure. Yes at times mistakes are made and delays occur. I'm sure the libturds will jump on this and say it's 3 months behind. But when you think about a 10 year project being 3 months behind, factoring in the fact that Telstra delayed progress by 9 months. They are actually 6 months ahead. (If the Liberals can twist 'facts' to suit them, why can't i.)

It has the ability to save money in many areas, such as aged care (estimated $1billion/year) Education for obvious reasons. The cost of internet and phones services will be cheaper because the wholesaler won't be spending $1 Billion/year repairing water damaged cables and copper that has simple degraded to breaking point.

The election will be decided on more than just NBN. But since the liberals have no real policies to speak of and have only produced 1 (8 months after announcing it was ready and costed.. bullshit!) then the NBN is all that we can really discuss based on facts and not wild opinions and political puffing.

Unfortunately for Labour it is the sitting government and their policies are in the open for all to scrutineer. Where as the liberals won't release must of it's policies unti l2 weeks before election. That way there is no time for public debate to see how good or bad they are for the country and people will base there vote on popularity of party leaders. Not contents of party policy.

 

[Tappet]

Yep, that's correct, so why do we need an NBN at all if all that is already possible??? 

I know people will say "so we can watch it as we download it", or, as they say, stream it! But do we really need to access stuff instantly???

One annalogy I've heard-
They could of built a 2 lane bridge over Sydney Harbour. At the time, It would of been sufficient but they had vision.

If the LNP had come with a plan that was say fibre to the node and then coax to premisies, you could give it some merit but using an aging twisted copper pair is just nuts.

 

[Biscuits]

I couldn't miss this ALP propaganda.

Oh and Biscuits, you aren't "Thruthvigilante" on this forum below are you ?

Been wondering where you have been.

http://www.politicalforum.com/australia-nz-pacific/

Just spent about 10 minutes writing replies to you comments. Then i realised that since none of it has any basis in reality or fact. I can't be bothers as it will be wasted on a liberal fanboy. No matter what i say you have already been told what to think and believe. Facts are just these inconvenient things they teach at those school thingies that some of us paid attention to.

Not a member of any political forums, just the occasional tweet, so not me I'm afraid. As to where i have been, i've been busy buying a house and changing jobs, having kids, camping, riding motorbikes

You know because now our economy is in such bad shape that all those things are possible. This truly is a shit country to live in right now.

 

[Dave]

This truly is a shit country to live in right now.

Thats Labor for you.

Tell us what you do for a job Biscuits, definetly dont work for yourself no doubt.

I am thinking you're employed by the Commonwealth somewhere.

Maybe on the Climate Change gravy train.

So if Abbott gets in, you lose your job.

Labor gets in, they throw money at your department constantly.

That the way it is ?

 

[Nevyn]

You are correct. The problem if that the vast majority of Aussie voters are uninformed or just don't give a shit.

But they do know it is LABOR not labour that is spending all their inheritance!!!

 

[Biscuits]

My employer is irrelevant. It's not any form of Government, actually a local small business made good and expanding.

I probably will lose my job when Abbott gets in through his piss poor ability to do his job properly. But then, most of us will be in the same boat. Which under Abbott will be illegally turned around at sea.

 

[siringo]

siringo,

You are correct. The problem if that the vast majority of Aussie voters are uninformed or just don't give a shit.

Yes, maybe, but whose fault is that? The media or the politicians?

They vote how the papers and poll tell them to vote

Don't believe that. I think most people don't know who to believe, so when the time comes they look back over history and vote for whoever they think has been more trustworthy and useful.

or worse still how their parents voted. Habit voting is the worst kind.

No, donkey voting is the worst kind. Voting for who your parents voted for is quite normal, natural almost as when you're 18 many people are still too young to have formed an intellectual opinion (or be bothered to) so they just do what they already know.

Yes the money could be spent elsewhere always can be, but when the copper we have fails which it will and shortly.

Yeah, maybe, but it won't all fail at the same time.

Labours NBN is a one service fits all, future proof solution. If you know the subject, it can't be argued that it is money well spent and well needed infrastructure.

Wouldn't you need to be privvy to the fair dinkum details of what is really going to be rolled out, put in the ground and through the air to be convinced of that and not just what's being spinned?

I agree, whoever does upgrade the telecommunications infrastructure in this country will do the country a favor and will also be hit with a big bill.

It has the ability to save money in many areas, such as aged care (estimated $1billion/year) Education for obvious reasons. The cost of internet and phones services will be cheaper because the wholesaler won't be spending $1 Billion/year repairing water damaged cables and copper that has simple degraded to breaking point.

The election will be decided on more than just NBN. But since the liberals have no real policies to speak of and have only produced 1 (8 months after announcing it was ready and costed.. bullshit!)...

...Unfortunately for Labour it is the sitting government and their policies are in the open for all to scrutineer. Where as the liberals won't release must of it's policies unti l2 weeks before election. That way there is no time for public debate to see how good or bad they are for the country and people will base there vote on popularity of party leaders. Not contents of party policy.

This is just politics and common sense, any side would do this and it could be argued that it is a problem caused by the PM calling the election so early. You never show your hand before you have to.

Labor are under no obligation to release their policies either, but they do, which gives everyone plenty of time to analyse and comment on them.

... it will be wasted on a liberal fanboy..

In defence of Dave, you do appear to be his worthy labor fanboy opposite.

;-)

 

[Biscuits]

So, now that Tony Abbott is being sued in the high court. Under his own standards of ethics which he repeatedly went over and over and over. He must resign??

I believe he said something like any court proceeding automatically brings a persons character into question.

Hypocrite much.