Wont start

[austingtir]

I have a 2004 yd25 Direct Injection model that was initially intermittantly having a problem of not starting for about 6 months or more (cranks but wont start). I simply double switched or tripple switched the ignition when it did his and it seemed to start fine. Thinking it was the glow plugs it didnt bother me to much.

Eventually it has started getting worse on colder mornings usually. Once running it runs like a clock and usually is never an issue for the rest of the day. But just today and last week i actually cannot get the thing to start at all for a couple of days. I left it for two days and it started and went fine for three days now again it wont start which has lead me to do all the usual checks.

I have replaced about a month ago the glow plugs and relays and i have been checking them a few times when this problem has come up to double check its not the timing box or something. I now dont believe it is the glow plugs or relay but still seems like and electrical issue to me. I even pulled the new glow plugs out a few times and placed one on the head and turned ignition on it always lights up fine!

I replaced the fuel filter about 5 months ago when the problem first started.

I tried priming the fuel I tried disconnecting the direct injection lines from the pump to the head to see if fuel comes out when i crank it which it does!

I have tried even boost starting it with another car to make sure its not the battery as its a little old but still in useable condition.

I guess the next things are clear fuel lines and go over all electrical connections and grounds?

The fault codes im getting are:
04 01
14 05
09 05
14 01
04 03

it has never given me the mill light to say it has faults I just checked that today using the jumper wire method on the consult terminal. I can only make sense of the 04 03 code which seems to be EGR which doesnt suprise me as i blocked the inlet manifold end only of the EGR.

Can anybody make sense of those other codes? Finding a fault code list for this particular model is not easy!

It will never splutter into life its either it will start or it wont as soon as you turn the key so you know not to bother keep cranking as nothing happens which furter leads me to the assumption its electrical related.

 

[Old.Tony]

Good post, plenty of info there.

Early trouble codes are difficult to work with, and really the codes often don't reflect the actual problem, particularly if the problem is electrical.

0401 looks like the intake air temp sensor
0403 looks like accelerator position sensor
0905 looks like turbo boost pressure


I can't find info (in the D22 Service Manual) on the 14xx faults.

All of them make me suspect the earth on the ECU, or on the engine block. The battery being a little old makes it highly suspect, regardless of being jump-started.

My suggestions would be:

1) Remove the earth for the ECU, clean it and its mating surface well, reattach.
2) Remove the earth from the engine block, clean all and reattach.

I'd then try the car again. If it's still erratic, pull the battery out of another car (600CCA or better) and try it in place of your starter, not jumped to it. We had someone recently report on this forum that their cranker was the cause of some mystery faults!

It's also quite unlikely that the 2004 D22 would throw a fault because you'd blocked the EGR. Flow sensors were introduced in the 2013 D40 range, so anything before that won't have a clue. It will know if the EGR valve itself has been disconnected, but it will also throw the CEL when it does.

 

[charlie strayarc]

A 2004 yd25 doesnt sound right, unless of course your not in oz.
Anyway have you ruled out starter motor as well as battery.

 

[austingtir]

Thanks for that confirming kinda what im thinking. There has been a bit of water ingress on the passenger side cabin due to me running my water injection and EGT temp wires/hoses in through there. Just shows should do things right if your going to do it i guess. Doh, will have a further look at that tomorrow...

I dried it out with a portable dehumidifier maybe 4 weeks ago and tried to fix up the hole a bit..... Me thinks the water getting in has deff done it... here's hoping its that simple anyway....

I guess i better look at the ecu and make sure water didnt get into it.
The fact that im getting codes out of the ecu must be a good sign the ecu is not fried.....

I have upraded turbo with boost controller so that explains the overboost code. LOL
I have chipped it with a zd30 style interceptor box. Yes the thing flys when its running LOL ; ). I use water injection to keep the egt's well in check.

The EGR code maybe because the egr flapper is not able to move because it is blocked with soot? Could it fault because of that? I should pull it off and have a look i guess.

I hope the 14 codes arent to do with injection pump malfunction thats my worse case scenario but when i undid the pipes to the injectors fuel came out on cranking which made me have hope its o.k

This ute has 236000kms on it and has never missed a beat other than this.

And yes im in New Zealand.

 

[austingtir]

It cranks at a good rate. I have a battery tester and my battery does pass as long as its charged up with all the cranking it did give a bad test today but thats kinda to be expected. It did fail the cranking test at 8.9v though.

So you reckon even with another car boosting it. Could still be an issue?

I will take the battery from that other car then as its only a couple years old and good.

 

[austingtir]

The intake sensor code has me stuck... im not sure this thing has an intake sensor... have to have another look. These things are very basic just a map sensor, throttle position inject some diesel and thats it?

 

[Ben_W]

In D22 with ZD30 I'm pretty sure the intake sensor is between the pre-filter and main air filter just before the airbox. Not sure if YD25 is different? Do you have a snorkel?

 

[tweak'e]

first thing first...
is it a D22?
sorry to be rude but many have made the mistake.
if its is then i assum its 2wd as nz never got that engine in 4x4.

egr code will be because the wiring to the egr valve is damaged or the valve is unplugged.
its starting to sound like failed earth somewhere, poor battery or cable/connector damage.
you mention the term "flapper". do you have a pic of what your talking about there?

 

[austingtir]

Yes its d22 NZ new 2004 king cab 2wd.

Im pretty hopeful it is just grounds.

What im talking about with the EGR is that it is obviously a motor in the top so it must turn a throttle body like flap to open and close the EGR. That would be my assumption anyway.

The fact that I blocked the intake side only probably means the rest of the tube in between would slowly coke up with exhaust soot type stuff and clog the operation of the valve. Weather this might cause a code i have no idea. But the grounds thing I will go over tomorrow just saying that I wont be suprised if the valve is so coked up it cant move causing a code but I also wont be suprised if it dont matter.

 

[tweak'e]

ecu won't flag a code if the valve is stuck or blocked. it only flags an error code if the wiring dosn't work. so as long as its plugged in and wiring is ok ecu should not flag an egr code.

obviosly if egr is not blocked off and valve is stuck open the engine won't run to well.

 

[Iceman]

If you are cranking at 8.9v there wont be enough voltage to run the ecu?

 

[austingtir]

If you are cranking at 8.9v there wont be enough voltage to run the ecu?

Yeah thats probably right but i jumped it with a car so it should of started surely. Anyway i am cleaning up all the grounds right now. I cant find one near the ECU in the cabin?

I found one on the passenger side footwell near the door. I will look on the driver side aswell but nothing in the centre that i can see where the ecu is?

I will swap the battery out of the other car and try that now.

 

[austingtir]

Cleaned all grounds and battery terminals i could find and put another battery in, this battery was 100% charged and had 92% state of health according to my tester. Its a 600cca battery and tested out at 540cca so is not perfect but not bad either. It passes with my sola battery tester.

On cranking i get 9.38v which my tester tells me is low. So i guess now i should look at the starter motor?

It is not starting not even a hicup or attempt to kick over.


On another note i primed the primer bulb before i tried to crank it. It took about 5 pumps and within about 5 minutes when i went back to it it needed another 3 to get it hard again? Does that sound normal?

I guess another thing to try is a tow start.

 

[Iceman]

Crank or cam sensor? A shot in the dark as i am not an expert by any means. If i understand you thie does NOT have the electronic injectors? So if the pump is good, the air is getting in and there is compression it should fire. How is the injection timing set on these, if could be out?

 

[tweak'e]

crank sensor.

9.38v is to low. i would have to go look but i think low volt cut off is either 10v or 11v.

the other thing is air in the fuel pump. the primer should go hard in 1-2 pumps. either the primer one way valve is not working or you have air in there.

lossen off one injector pipe, loosen not undo the whole thing, put foot hard on the gas and crank it over. that should clear the pipe and fill the IP with fuel.
tighten pipe and crank it over again with foot hard on the gas. hopefully one cyl will fire.

does it have an alarm system?

make sure all fuses are ok. i seam to recall a fault that if the taillight fuse is blown it may not start.

 

[austingtir]

It has Nats but if nats is screwed they usually wont crank? Is that correct? My skyline will crank if you have the wrong key but wont start. Im pretty confident its nothing to do with that.

No alarm.

Checked the fuses. One tail light has a crack in it and tends to blow bulbs due to moisture but it would always start... i'll check that once i get the battery charged back up.

I am now suspicious of that primer because when it first started having this problem ages ago i decided it was time to change the fuel filter and it did take alot of priming to get it going again after the filter change. Maybe i ruined the primer during that episode. And it does feel loose when you start pumping.... first pump loose third pump tightening 4th and 5th pretty much tight. Leave it for 5 minutes without trying to start and its as loose as before again?

That episode with the fuel filter I dont recall it firing either for a long while so maybe it is air.

Maybe iv gotten to the stage where the starter motor has gotten worn and wont crank fast enough to get the IP firing properly and its drawing to much voltage to let the ECU in the pump and cabin work properly?

The starter motor obviously turned a bit quicker when i jumped it.... its just gets me that it should of started that time... maybe i should try it again.

 

[austingtir]

Rebuilt the starter didnt seem to be much wrong with it brushes were close to done though.

It is cranking a bit faster now and my tester tells me the cranking draw at 9.72v is acceptable with a charged battery. So thats improved.

I went and bought some clear line and a hand squeze bilge pump and pumped the fuel through with that and the factory primer.

Things of note when i squeeze the bilge primer it stays squeezed after a few pumps and if i push the factory primer down it stays down.

There are tiny bubbles in the line just after the factory primer and im still trying to work out if they are getting sucked in through where i have the clear line clamped on or from the factory primer.... its hard to tell but it does almost look like it might be coming through the clear line as its so thin and hard to clamp... really hard to tell though.

I had not tried to start it again for a few days now and first thing i did after the starter motor was install this clear line and hand pump on the first crank the thing did almost splutter to life... so i suspect had i not disconnected the fuel lines and put this clear line it it may well of started.
The hand pump once its squeezed up does seem like a bit of a restriction so i might try just clear line and the factory primer tomorrow.

But the thing is I can not seem to get it to start and the battery is getting low again so might try again tomorrow.

If i cant get it tomorrow im towing it to the local diesel specialist.

The splutter did give me hope that its not the vp44 pump...

 

[Old.Tony]

If your battery is on charge overnight and you reprime it without the restrictions in the morning, it sounds promising. Good luck!

 

[austingtir]

If your battery is on charge overnight and you reprime it without the restrictions in the morning, it sounds promising. Good luck!

Got it running!

Im going to take it for a thrash and get a wof on it then maybe drop it off at nissan later so i can get the codes properly read.

The hand bulb primer does seem to help with priming.

 

[austingtir]

typical nissan I should of known they wouldnt read the codes on the spot but thought id try it on anyway. Drove the ute twice today and only turned it off at nissan where it didnt start the first time. popped the bonnet and primed with the primer bulb i put in and it started.... Again once running this thing does not miss a beat at all. Its just starting. Tried starting it three other times since Nissan with decent time gaps in between starts first time...

I'll try starting it every morning for a week and see what happens. If it doesnt start i'll prime it. If it starts that should give me an indication its more likely an air leak or something somewhere.

The primer bulb i installed when i blew in the reverse flow direction didnt completly seal off there was the slight sound of a tiny leak.... so this thing wont totally stop fuel from going back to the tank....which is a pain. But it primes atleast 5 times as good as that POS factory thing.

I think tomorrow i'll do up the clamps on the hoses at the in and out of the injection pump as i have never touched those. I just cant see short of the copper washers for the banjo's on the injection pump where else it could be letting air in.