Idiots on the road.

Yesterday a mate rang me to take him to Singleton for a job interview. I said no worries give me a 30 minutes to have a shower and be at his place.

So I we drove to Singleton and he got the job as a truckie.

On the way home between Greta and Lochinvar I heard on the UHF that a truck driver had swerved to miss a car that had pulled out in front of it and the truck was in a paddock but the trailer was blocking the southbound lane.

This truck being a fuel tanker was lucky that no one crashed into the trailer.

To make things worse the car driver took off when he or she would of heard and seen the truck lock up the brakes.

I drive about 50,000km's a year on the road and see that much stupid shit its not funny.

I would rather drive next to trucks all day long as these guys do about 100,000-200,000km's a year compared to the average driver who does 20,000km's.

Truck driver's stay in the left lane unless overtaking.

99% of truck crashes are caused by car driver's, so the next time you hear some crap on tv about trucks. Ask yourself how much crap these guys put up with everyday on the road.

By the way I ain't a truckie, I work for Telstra.

Rant over.

Dave.

I'm fully licenced up to MC and have driven trucks on and off since I was 17 and I sit next to trucks as little as possible. Cattle trucks spew manure out of the sides at times and cow shit isn't good on paint work but apart from anything else if you've ever seen a truck tyre let go at 100ks there is no way you'd sit next to them even in a higher vehicle like a Nav.

Mythbusters did test this theory in several ways and I've had tyres let go on me in semi's and it's not a pretty sight when they really let go. My tyres have never hit anything but I've taken barbed wire fences out.

As far as the trucks in the left lane go I agree with this at all times except on freeways. Trucks in the left hand lane are an accident waiting to happen in the left lane where all the other moronic drivers are trying to merge and don't care who's in their way. Trucks can't lane change to avoid such idiots and the further to the right they are the better it is. It's not often a truck is sitting in the right lane of a freeway doing 20ks below the speed limit so it's not like they are holding up traffic if anything they are just holding up the boy racers.

I fully support truckies using cameras to report bad car drivers (as long as they accept it when they are caught doing wrong as well) and think anyone getting their licence ought to be made to spend just a little time behind 65 tonnes of rolling stock to get an appreciation of just what it takes to stop one of these things when they are cut off.

As per my other road safety thread, I think education, and repetitive advertising campaigns are the best way of dealing with it. Most people are not practical, common sense type people so sadly they need to be told not to change lanes in front of a truck slowing down for traffic lights and all of that stuff, because they don't have the common sense to think of it themselves. Personally, I have a bit of a cynical view of truckies road safety, however this has probably come about by personal experience, a simple case of a few rogues spoiling it for all of the good guys. But it just means that I am very cautious and give them plenty of space, don't drive beside them etc. I certainly don't think the whole industry are rogues.
I do think that the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" often rings true with people who drive for a living. They are driving all day, every day, so their familiarity with the task breeds contempt of safety. I'm not just taslking about truckies here either - taxi drivers, bus drivers etc... I am guilty of it in my own profession, being an electrician you get used to working with electricity and when it becomes second nature, you sometimes forget that what is a day to day task that you hold little regard for, with the slip of a finger could quite easily kill you.

Dave said:

I would rather drive next to trucks all day long as these guys do about 100,000-200,000km's a year compared to the average driver who does 20,000km's.

Truck driver's stay in the left lane unless overtaking.

99% of truck crashes are caused by car driver's, so the next time you hear some crap on tv about trucks. Ask yourself how much crap these guys put up with everyday on the road.



Dave.

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Not in Victoria mate.

As Krafty says, its one hellova bad place to be sitting beside at truck on a hwy.

I,m not trying to portray car drivers as angels, and yes there is a lot of brain dead car drivers, but ,

I too drive 1200k plus up and down the Hume every week
and sorry but i dont have much good to say about truck drivers and even more so when there is a few together,

and,

while I agree somewhat that in the city enviroment cars have 'some' influence in truck crashes,

but,

none of the truck crashes that i've seen
or had friends attend via emerg services
from about '92 to present on the Hume 'tween
Seymour and Craigieburn have been due to cars.

Doing any task day in day out is quite often a recipe for disaster and at times transport industry managers just don't see it. Delivering bread to Philip Island every night and being on the road from 12am to 10am it's not hard for complacency to slip in, and that run wasn't even considered long haul, but I know waking up hitting white posts doing 110ks with 12 tonnes of bread sure taught me not to be complacent and find different ways to do the same job to break the familiarity.

Education and training are and always will be the key and it needs to happen for both cars and trucks but it also needs to happen at a management level. Companies like Fox and Safeway/Woolworths lead the way a few years ago by ensuring that management understood the dangers of driving long haul and didn't push their drivers to unexpected limits. They will never stop rouges or cowboys in any industry but until everyone who requests, orders or even asks someone else to get in a vehicle and drive it respects every law and rule of the road all the education and training is wasted.

Krankin said:

none of the truck crashes that i've seen
or had friends attend via emerg services
from about '92 to present on the Hume 'tween
Seymour and Craigieburn have been due to cars.

Click to expand...

Such a statement is ludicrous, 18 years of accidents on the Hume and no car annoying a truck causing it to swerve or veer off the road before disappearing out of sight, I find it hard to believe. I used to see idiots racing up and down that road constantly when I drove it semi regularly. With the number of both cars and trucks that use that road in any 24 hour period there has to be stupid car drivers as well as stupid truck drivers.

The only part of Dave's story I don't agree with totally is the keep left rule which I think has exceptions. I'd always travel in convoy with a trucks than a convoy of cars, sitting along side them isn't my ideal spot but behind them at a safe distance is my preferred spot when traveling on the highway.

KraftyPg said:

Such a statement is ludicrous,

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Well sorry mate,

stats and evidence dont agree with you here,
i live in the area, am involved with emergency services and unfortunately you dont know everything.
Condsidering most of truck crashes in the
'stretch of hwy I'm talking about'
are in the wee hours of the morning , city bound,
or in heavy rain, or fog,
are due to drivers dozing off or in other cases 'cowboy driving', and bad attitudes towards other roadusers, not due to cars,
and theres bugger all cars oround at those times.

Tell me, is it a safe practice to be driving blind at 110k in heavy fog or rain where you cant see 50 meters ahead ?

Keep in mind, while driving these K's i also have the UHF on and can hear the drivers ramblings,
attitudes and 'Game playing' with small vehicles.

Like i said, i do the K's up and down here every day,
and thats the way it is.
And sorry but trucks dont own the roads.

As much as I agree a lot of car drivers should'nt even be allowed on the road, the roads are for everyone and not just trucks.
Just like you say cars have to allow room in front of a truck to stop, then why do truck drivers insist on tailgating cars, and dont try and tell me they dont.
Fact is its the case of 'little cock, big truck syndrome'.

At the end of it we all have to share the same roads and we all have EQUALL RIGHTS to use them.

Keep in mind I'm only refering to a particular stretch of rural mountainous HWY and not the whole country or city areas.

I am not saying I sit next to trucks in the right lane all the time. I mean on the New England Highway I would rather have Careys Frieght Lines/ Coots/ Wickham Frieght Lines etc in front of the trucks or behind and I never ever worry about being tailgated etc.

I have seen the aftermath of a blown truck tyre, hence why I dont sit next to them. I use the right lane to overtake and then pull back into the left lane.

Carey's Frieght Lines is the best trucking company that I deal with everyday on the highway, I have never had one issue with one of there driver's at all. I see atleast 15 of there trucks on the road.

Dave.

As much as I love a good argument and could easily produce stats that try to prove just about any topic this isn't the time or place for such comments. It's obvious that my 400ks a day (just incase you were wondering 6 x 400 is 2400ks a week, every week) along several major highways and arterial roads, in the darkness, the fog, the pouring rain and hail and my own experiences with emergency services are no match for your extremely vast knowledge of one 72k stretch of highway which so easily summerises the whole country and it's drivers.

Keep on Truckin'!

KraftyPg said:

As much as I love a good argument and could easily produce stats that try to prove just about any topic this isn't the time or place for such comments. It's obvious that my 400ks a day (just incase you were wondering 6 x 400 is 2400ks a week, every week) along several major highways and arterial roads, in the darkness, the fog, the pouring rain and hail and my own experiences with emergency services are no match for your extremely vast knowledge of one 72k stretch of highway which so easily summerises the whole country and it's drivers.

Keep on Truckin'!

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Well as i expected,
truck drivers are perfect drivers and never at fault.

Ok, we'll leave it there then.

But,
I dont recall anywhere summerizing drivers the whole country over by my 'vast knowledge of my backyard'.

It would be safe to say that almost every time I am on the highway that I see at least one seriously dangerous maneouvre by a truck. Usually it's speeding or tailgating, and quite often both at once. If I were a police officer, I would find every possible ticket to write them, and THEN go right over their log books and rigs and find anything else there to pin them with so they would lose their licence. Quite frankly, I don't care if they lose their licence and can't put food on the table for their family, I don't want me or anyone else to be killed or mamed by these cowboy's reckless stupidity. These guys are reasonably well-paid "professional" drivers and should be acting like it (reasonably well paid considering the level of low qualification and skill set required to do the job). I believe if professional drivers are at fault in a road fatality they should be charged with manslaughter at a minimum.

At worst, getting rid of the cowboys would clean up the industry and restore the good name of all the many great, safe and responsible transport workers.

While you're cleaning up the industry lets do the same to car drivers, make all car drivers use log books, make all car drivers rest at certain times, weigh all cars and make sure they aren't over weight and make all car drivers blow 00 at all times.

Why shouldn't the coppers pull over every V8 on the road because there has been a spate of accidents involving V8's in the past few weeks. Down here a few years ago we had a bad run of ute accidents should all ute drivers have been pulled up and checked just because of the efforts of a few.

The minority are always going to screw it up for the rest of the people, its a sad but true fact of life. There is always going to be steering wheel attendants driving all manner of vehicles including cars, it's not just one industry that's at fault it's a few rouges in amongst thousands if not hundreds of thousands, but it doesn't mean all of them are as bad or all of them should have to pay the price.

KraftyPg said:

make all car drivers blow 00 at all times.

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This needs to be made law,

and not just for car drivers but for ALL ROAD USERS

Having a 00 alcohol limit is impossible in this country, firstly our public transport system is a joke, 2nd were a big country and catching public transport is just not gona happen, i spoke with a girl who worked at a tattoo shop, she said she had 9hrs a day of public transport to get to work and back. Thats not country too, that was from frankston to sunshine.
Anyway if it was a 00 limit id be shitting myself every time i ate a cherry ripe or ate at home as my wife uses red wine in some of her cooking.

Cherry ripes are alcoholic? As long as your wife is cooking the alcohol it makes little difference the alcohol cooks out anyway.

While I believe it is a waste of time having a 00 limit because we already have a limit people go over. 00 isn't impossible given that any operator of a vehicle 12 tonne or over must be 00 when behind the wheel. Most workplaces have a 00 limit as well, just because they don't enforce it doesn't mean they can't. Impose any limit on anything and there will always be someone who wants to break the limit.

Where is the fairness that allows a car driver to drive his vehicle for as long as wants with no limits but makes a truck driver limit his driving. Sure a truck is going to cause more damage when it hits something but cars still cause damage and can kill but a car driver can drive 24 hours straight, not only that the same car driver can have an alcohol limit up to .05 and still be considered ok. I'd rather take my chances with a truckie obeying his laws that a car driver obeying his laws if they can use them like that.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in a past post ...

On our Christmas trip, heading down the south coast of NSW, we came around a bend and were slowed by people waving the traffic to a crawl. As we crept past a single-vehicle accident, where a Subaru Forester had rolled and a significant impact had occurred crushing the 'A' pillar area to about half its normal size, the most heartbreaking part was the samaritan who had stopped to help, and was standing beside the driver's door holding the driver's head up and steady. Very likely the kid had a broken neck, his Forester was all but trashed, and the obvious P plate would have told everything: wet road, gentle curve up (or down) that tightens up ... oversteer, ping the armco railing and over you go.

Make 0% PCA law? Yes please. Also make the max developed horsepower about 50. Drop their speed back to 80 while on P's (like mine was).

Krafty, i've made my opinion on car drivers clear in no uncertain terms in the other road safety post, and for the most part i agree with what you're saying. However there is one very distinct difference between people who drive to commute, and people who drive for a living - and that's the fact that driving is their chosen, trained, paid profession. If a builder builds a dodgy deck and it collapses, all hell will break loose, he will get sued so bad that his insurance company's CEO's grandchildren's children's cousins will still be paying it back. If a DIYer does it, what happens? Usually, nothing.

Why shouldn't the same processes apply to transport industry workers?

WIR35 said:

Why shouldn't the same processes apply to transport industry workers?

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Not quite sure what you are referring to with that statement. As far as I am aware just like any other industry if a professional driver of any sort of vehicle is deemed to be a fault or have caused and accident he/she is as liable as a dodgy builder. If the courts don't do their job with the criminal side of things victims of road accidents are able to sue for damages.

If proven at fault any driver no matter what vehicle they drive should be accountable and I don't believe I've ever suggested otherwise. (although just like in politics I'm sure if I have someone can prove it, and just like in politics I'll deny everything). What I have suggested though is that there should be some fairness in the rulings for all road users no matter what vehicle they drive.

I guess what I'm getting at is that professional drivers should be subject to stricter enforcement penalties for traffic infringements, because, in theory, they *should* be better drivers than Joe Blogs, because they are "trained professionals" and community expectation of someone who is trained and who has a particular profession is that those people would do the job markedly better than someone who isn't a trained professional. Remember, that means taxi drivers, courier drivers, truck drivers, bus drivers etc.

This would not affect the responsible drivers, in fact it was actually in a discussion with a few very responsible and professional truck driver mates who actually suggested most of this to me. They, of all people, don't want rogue cowboys tarnishing their industry.

No one wants rouge cowboys on the road but realistically even if you could get rid of the professional cowboys there is still more than enough non professional cowboys out there to make the roads dangerous. And to my way of thinking those cowboys need to be dealt just as strict penalties as any one else.

We all do make mistakes from time to time and some of us pay a fine for them others of us pay for it by having an accident while I don't think making the rules stricter for one group is going to make any difference to the cowboys, just like 00 limits and P plates hasn't effected the car cowboys, I do agree that the responsible drivers may not be effected.

I can only speak of my own experience, but to give you a bit of background, I am an electrical contractor in QLD. Because of the relatively loose policing of the standard of workmanship, consequently that level of workmanshipis basically up the shitter. I personally would love to see more inspectors with greater penalties put in place for poor workmanship and unsafe installations, because it means all of those rough cowboy electricians get put out of business, and those companies who focus on doing a good job and testing properly will flourish. At the moment, the companies who flourish are the ones who can cut the most costs and hand out the cheapest price. I would imagine the same principle applies to any industry with any measure of "potential danger" involved and could most definately be applied to the trucking industry.