Idiots on the road.

[KraftyPg]

Where does the "professional" driver title begin and end. Truck driver delivering from A to B, fair enough, Cab driver ferrying passengers from A to B, probably, Bus driver, same deal. What about ambo drivers, police and fire fighters? Their job description states they need to drive their vehicles for a living but are they "professional" drivers?

Then you also have to distinguish if the tradesman is a professional driver, even if it's only for the distance between the work site and home or the shop etc. As they need their vehicle for work purposes they could become professional drivers for some time of the day.

Then you have to distinguish where the term professional ends, does it end when the driver finishes his shift or does it continue when he gets in his car and drives home, or does it go 24/7 because it's his job?

There is many different types of job that require a vehicle and many of those jobs are held by the average Joe but if a vehicle is required whether it be for 5 minutes a day or 8 hours a day the distinction between non professional and professional becomes a bit blurred.

Not saying your wrong but it's not as simple as just suggesting all "professional" divers should stricter infringements forced on them.

 

[WIR35]

I kind of get what you're saying, but I guess you could judge what is a professional driver and what isn't by the fact that if you take a police officer or a tradesman out of their car, they are still a police officer and a tradesman capable of doing their chosen profession, but if you take a truck driver out of his truck or a taxi driver out of his cab, they are just useless. Unless they are bloody strong and can carry 100 head of cattle on their back or piggyback 3 fat businessmen down the street.....

 

[KraftyPg]

That's a bit rude suggesting that a steering wheel attendant is useless if they aren't in the drivers seat. I know of many guys hauling rigs up and down the highway that I would trust to fix just about anything mechanical before I'd trust a paid professional. I even know a part time taxi driver who is a full time line marker for the roads services. I myself have an MC truck licence and have driven local cartage to long haul and still do drive a truck when the need arises but by most day if I'm not driving I charge customers over $100 per hour for corporate network support. I may not be able to carry 100 head of cattle on my back but I'm also betting a tradie with no matter what qualifications couldn't carry them either so they must also be useless as me.

This is just becoming ridiculous, while your idea might seem reasonable on paper in practice it's an entirely different situation and one that would require so much changing and so much work that it becomes unachievable.

 

[Jason]

That's a bit rude suggesting that a steering wheel attendant is useless if they aren't in the drivers seat. I know of many guys hauling rigs up and down the highway that I would trust to fix just about anything mechanical before I'd trust a paid professional. I even know a part time taxi driver who is a full time line marker for the roads services. I myself have an MC truck licence and have driven local cartage to long haul and still do drive a truck when the need arises but by most day if I'm not driving I charge customers over $100 per hour for corporate network support. I may not be able to carry 100 head of cattle on my back but I'm also betting a tradie with no matter what qualifications couldn't carry them either so they must also be useless as me.

This is just becoming ridiculous, while your idea might seem reasonable on paper in practice it's an entirely different situation and one that would require so much changing and so much work that it becomes unachievable.

WIR35 didn't say that at all, he said if you take a professional driver out of the driving seat he has no way to earn a living as a professional driver, if you take a policeman out of the driving seat he can still earn a living as a policeman. Same goes for a tradesman.

My definition of a Professional Driver would be that if you took their license from them they would no longer have the ability to earn an income in that profession. So it would be truck drivers, bus drivers, cab drivers, tour drivers and driving instructors. I'm sure you could find more.

 

[ants_oz]

A little known fact with police and driving - you have to have a drivers licence to operate a police vehicle - fair enough yeah? But to operate a police vehicle above the speed limit (eg pursuit work) you have to undertake specific training and pass certain examinations.

 

[KraftyPg]

Jason you just proved that once again there is so many ways to interpret these statements that making any sort of ruling would be near on impossible. You read it one way, I read it another, someone else reads it differently again and we all might be wrong.

Having never disagreed with needing to rid the roads of rouges, cowboys and steering wheel attendants it still comes down to the fact that no rules are ever going to stop these sort of people, they already break the rules we have in place so what is the point of bringing in a new rule that has the possibility of effecting so many other drivers in the process. It's just like saying we should drop the national speed limit to 80, all drivers blow 00 and no more than 3 passengers in any car. The accident rate would have to drop significantly, but only if everyone in the country adhered to the laws. As soon as you over govern anything you run the risk of creating more rouges out there breaking the rules.

Sure it's been mentioned that innocent drivers and responsible drivers shouldn't be effected by rule changes but lets face it they will be in the end. With the costs of bringing in new laws and the extra man power and or training needed to police them it wont be long before all so called professional drivers (responsible or not) are making up the short fall and being slugged extra for licences and rego etc.

 

[Jason]

I know statements can be interpreted differently, especially on the net/forums. But I think most people will agree that WIR35 point was obvious. I agree that 'useless' was a bad choice of words.

I would like to see mandatory in-cabin video recording systems for professional drivers, with reductions in registration/licensing costs to assist in paying for them. They should cover cabin and/or forward view, and rear view. Professional drivers who are constantly at fault will be weeded out as they will become too expensive to employ, and non-professional drivers that cause accidents will also become accountable.

The road toll is atrocious, and that's from all drivers.

Edit: This is the item I saw the other day, not a bad vid either. http://www.littleripparoadcam.com/

 

[KraftyPg]

Again different ways to look at it. The word useless wasn't what I had a problem with I had a problem with the suggestion that truckies, cabbies and other drivers couldn't be multi skilled enough to also do other jobs within their company like the reference that a policeman can.

Without a licence the copper can't fulfill his full duties just like a truckie or a cabbie can't. Ok a tradie can still get the missus to drive him to work and he can be a tradie but the other drivers can do the same thing as well and like the tradie they just can't drive when they get to work.

So it still comes down to the fact that the distinction between professional and non professional will always be a very blurred line that every person will have a different view on. No one is right and no one is wrong because there is no such law yet but you can't just rule out one person who uses his company registered vehicle to get to and from the building site as well as running work related errands yet sting the guy who spends 5 days a week working at Centerlink and never driving for work but then driving a truck on the weekends for 8 hours as a full time professional driver.

As for cameras once again the argument comes down to why the hell shouldn't all road users, and at very least all new cars be fitted with these from the factory. The roads are still for everyone to use and everyone should play a role in road safety not just the professional drivers. I'd be happy to put one in mine, I've installed security cameras around the house I'd be happy to stick one on the ute and I'm make it work for both security and safety.

 

[Jason]

There is some interesting articles/reports here:

Road crash statistics

 

[SOLID D22]

Jason you just proved that once again there is so many ways to interpret these statements that making any sort of ruling would be near on impossible. You read it one way, I read it another, someone else reads it differently again and we all might be wrong.

Having never disagreed with needing to rid the roads of rouges, cowboys and steering wheel attendants it still comes down to the fact that no rules are ever going to stop these sort of people, they already break the rules we have in place so what is the point of bringing in a new rule that has the possibility of effecting so many other drivers in the process. It's just like saying we should drop the national speed limit to 80, all drivers blow 00 and no more than 3 passengers in any car. The accident rate would have to drop significantly, but only if everyone in the country adhered to the laws. As soon as you over govern anything you run the risk of creating more rouges out there breaking the rules.

Sure it's been mentioned that innocent drivers and responsible drivers shouldn't be effected by rule changes but lets face it they will be in the end. With the costs of bringing in new laws and the extra man power and or training needed to police them it wont be long before all so called professional drivers (responsible or not) are making up the short fall and being slugged extra for licences and rego etc.

I think its a stupid idea to limit 3 or less people to a car, and im relating more to young hoon drivers, not young considerate drivers, you see a group of 9 people can get to where they want to go in 2 cars but if the law came in for limited occupants in a car, which it has in vic to just 1 passenger per p plate car for teens, that means that you would need 3 or more cars to get to the same destination, which in turn usually for a young hoon would want to race his/her mates anywhere they can any chance they get.

 

[Krankin]

I think its a stupid idea to limit 3 or less people to a car, and im relating more to young hoon drivers, not young considerate drivers, you see a group of 9 people can get to where they want to go in 2 cars but if the law came in for limited occupants in a car, which it has in vic to just 1 passenger per p plate car for teens, that means that you would need 3 or more cars to get to the same destination, which in turn usually for a young hoon would want to race his/her mates anywhere they can any chance they get.

Well, your missing the point entirely for the less people in one car with an unexperienced driver at the helm and
the way i interpret your posts you seem to have no problem with drivers flouting the laws of the land in particular ones that can lead to very ugly outcomes.
Not having a personal attack 'as such' at you but its the way i interpret some of your posts in our time here.

Its with these ugly outcomes that i write here, and i know one is beating the head against the wall when trying to get through to the youth of today,
but if more people could experience working in a major city hospital ED Dept (my wife does) we might have a different outlook.

Maybe the 9 people you mention who are prob going out to rage, drink or drug take should be getting a lift etc instead if driving.

 

[SOLID D22]

I know for a fact when i was younger if me and my mates would drive somewhere we would almost drag race of every set of lights and occasionally put the foot down from 80 onwards to a top speed, it could have been up to 4 cars at a race, but you must be missing my point, you see if it is a limited amount of cars or even 1 between mates we did not race because we had more people in the car.
So in turn its 2 points of view here and both dont make sense in my opinion because young hoons are always going to be young hoons no matter what you do, let me repeat that, no matter what you do, so if you limit their driving from 1 or 2 cars to 5 or 6 then thats 5 or 6 times more the possibility of carnage on the roads that could happen.

 

[SOLID D22]

To clarify my last point after reading over it, i understand what krankin means by saying if only 1 or 2 people are in the car then if you crash its a chance that only 1 or 2 of you can die, im thinking more along the lines of more cars with speed can cause more damage to themselves and others surrounding them than just one car.
Whichever way it goes young drivers will always think their bulletprof no matter what they see or get educated on, a course is better to do for your knowledge but in the real world if someone is flying down the road at over 160k then driver training is gona do stuff all when there is tress and objects lining the streets and their sliding out of control, the death of 5 kids in plenty rd is an example, the very next day another friend of the youth that died was caught excessively speeding, even his own friends deaths did nothing to make him think twice.
Thats why im saying no matter what we do it cant really change the road toll if young hoons dont care in the first place.

 

[Krankin]

I know for a fact when i was younger if me and my mates would drive somewhere we would almost drag race of every set of lights and occasionally put the foot down from 80 onwards to a top speed, it could have been up to 4 cars at a race, but you must be missing my point, you see if it is a limited amount of cars or even 1 between mates we did not race because we had more people in the car.
So in turn its 2 points of view here and both dont make sense in my opinion because young hoons are always going to be young hoons no matter what you do, let me repeat that, no matter what you do, so if you limit their driving from 1 or 2 cars to 5 or 6 then thats 5 or 6 times more the possibility of carnage on the roads that could happen.

Well, youve proved my point in that youve no concept in the consequences that can and do arise by the actions of you and your mates, in your younger days and that of the hoons of today.
So as you say hoons will always be hoons, your comfortable with that, just let it be, dont worry who gets killed, if it doesnt affect you who cares.
You as you say will only race if and only you are in the car, (example) but the car you've just run into has a family of 4 that youve just killed...but that wont happen cause your a good street racer,hey.
And kids dont race or hoon when there is a few in the car....but we keep seeing carloads of carnage constantly.

sorry but the public roads are no place for "IDIOT DRIVERS"

 

[Krankin]

a course is better to do for your knowledge but in the real world if someone is flying down the road at over 160k then driver training is gona do stuff all when there is tress and objects lining the streets and their sliding out of control,

I would argue that driver training and the road rules would have taught him not to be speeding at 160 in the first place

 

[SOLID D22]

Im saying no matter what you, i, police, the government, good drivers, driver education does as long as there is no device which stops a car from speeding then yes hoons will be hoons no matter what.

 

[SOLID D22]

Also id like to add without getting a big head here when i done the driver course at deca it taught me nothing new as i already was doing everything in the correct way.

 

[SOLID D22]

I would argue that driver training and the road rules would have taught him not to be speeding at 160 in the first place

You see that is my point, there is no point arguing that, my bro and his friends are 19 and no matter what education they have done they love taking off quick and top speed on freeways, they know the outcome if something goes wrong but driver training, me, sis, parents can not tell him different. Sure he says he wont do it but then you hear of stories from his mates about him and others doing this and that, what we say or what he was taught is all out the window, this is not just him this is just the way young HOONS think.

 

[Krankin]

People can get driver training, etc etc,
but untill one works out that there's consequences for actions one takes and the roads have no place for hoon or drink/drug driving then nothing will change,
and,
are we as civilised (suposedly) people just do nothing and let the young kill themselves and others.
Obviously some can,but i cant be comfortable with that.
The young hoons keep sayin we are great drivers, were this and that, we dont need new laws, bla bla bla, but they keep killing themselves..WTF.
Should we just let them die.
I'd like my kids to live longer than I.

 

[SOLID D22]

Im not arguing about anything we are trying to do to prevent road deaths and also to get messages across to hoons of all ages, im all for it but i would also like to see some device fitted to cars which makes them not be able to hit high speed, making someone drive a non turbo car is not the answer.