Beergutz
Member
Im local tomorrow, would be greatly appreciated Tony. I will PM you my number. I can catch up any time that suits with you. Thanks again. Mark.
Really starting to piss me off...
- Thread starter timmy_larco
- Start date
Help Support Nissan Navara Forum:
Was good to meet you Mark, and I've done some reading about the info we got last night. I'm quoting stuff from the manual here that I know you have, but need to include it so that everyone else knows what we're talking about too.
The "P1272" code that your ECU was providing is the fuel pump (EC.PDF page 1026). On page 1233 if says:
Further on, it defines P1272 more clearly: "Fuel rail pressure relief valve open". It states that the condition for this code to appear is:
And then it lists the following as possible causes:
The second last one is a distinct possibility, especially considering that the filter's been off, had some leakage and reconnected.
Something we didn't try was squeezing the primer bulb - we should only have gotten 4-5 squeezes in. I'd like to see how many we get before starting her up in the morning.
Part of the diagnostics include replacing the fuel rail and pump, which we're not going to do since the pump costs about a gazillion dollars.
The first step that we CAN do has already been done on yours, but if there's a small leak in the suction side of your fuel pump we need to fix that first. We can tell if there's a leak there if we can squeeze that primer bulb more than 5 times before it gets hard.
If that happens, we should probably make certain that we're looking at an air problem and put some clear hose at the filter's outlet, keeping the clear section at the highest point so that the air rises to it.
Once we've determined that it's air in the fuel, we need to fix the problem - might just be a small amount of varnish or debris on the pipe on the suction side of the pump - then do this process (p1018 of EC.PDF):
Once the ECM is in mode II we need to fully depress the accelerator and hold it for MORE than 10 seconds. This clears the trouble code and resets the learning.
I'm fairly convinced now that your turbocharger is fine. It would boost to about 19psi which is what mine did. Until it went into limp mode, the actuator seemed to do precisely what it needed to do, and throttle changes were fairly immediately reflected in boost level changes - so I'm not sure that's the guy that has a problem.
Your fuel rail pressure was definitely higher than mine - mine peaked at about 25500kPa and yours surged past 28000kPa. I'm not 100% sure that the rail pressure was read accurately but that looks like it might be peaking at just over 400psi, and our rails are supposed to run at 315psi or so. Mine seems a little high at about 350psi - so let's assume that there's some error in the reporting, but acknowledge that your values were distinctly and constantly higher than mine.
I was also thinking about the muck under your intercooler hosing. If that's come out of the hose, then you've got a boost leak. It might only be minor and might not affect this at all, but I think that top hose we were looking at needs to come off and either be cleaned up or replaced. On the subject of that hose, I asked the manager at the service department about replacing it and he suggested that I could but there was little need and if I did replace it, there would be no impact on my warranty. He even suggested that I go to a performance shop and get it from there.
I hope we manage to resolve the problem! If you find air in the fuel line and fix it and want to check the reported figures again let me know, I'm just up the road.
The "P1272" code that your ECU was providing is the fuel pump (EC.PDF page 1026). On page 1233 if says:
Further on, it defines P1272 more clearly: "Fuel rail pressure relief valve open". It states that the condition for this code to appear is:
And then it lists the following as possible causes:
The second last one is a distinct possibility, especially considering that the filter's been off, had some leakage and reconnected.
Something we didn't try was squeezing the primer bulb - we should only have gotten 4-5 squeezes in. I'd like to see how many we get before starting her up in the morning.
Part of the diagnostics include replacing the fuel rail and pump, which we're not going to do since the pump costs about a gazillion dollars.
The first step that we CAN do has already been done on yours, but if there's a small leak in the suction side of your fuel pump we need to fix that first. We can tell if there's a leak there if we can squeeze that primer bulb more than 5 times before it gets hard.
If that happens, we should probably make certain that we're looking at an air problem and put some clear hose at the filter's outlet, keeping the clear section at the highest point so that the air rises to it.
Once we've determined that it's air in the fuel, we need to fix the problem - might just be a small amount of varnish or debris on the pipe on the suction side of the pump - then do this process (p1018 of EC.PDF):
Once the ECM is in mode II we need to fully depress the accelerator and hold it for MORE than 10 seconds. This clears the trouble code and resets the learning.
I'm fairly convinced now that your turbocharger is fine. It would boost to about 19psi which is what mine did. Until it went into limp mode, the actuator seemed to do precisely what it needed to do, and throttle changes were fairly immediately reflected in boost level changes - so I'm not sure that's the guy that has a problem.
Your fuel rail pressure was definitely higher than mine - mine peaked at about 25500kPa and yours surged past 28000kPa. I'm not 100% sure that the rail pressure was read accurately but that looks like it might be peaking at just over 400psi, and our rails are supposed to run at 315psi or so. Mine seems a little high at about 350psi - so let's assume that there's some error in the reporting, but acknowledge that your values were distinctly and constantly higher than mine.
I was also thinking about the muck under your intercooler hosing. If that's come out of the hose, then you've got a boost leak. It might only be minor and might not affect this at all, but I think that top hose we were looking at needs to come off and either be cleaned up or replaced. On the subject of that hose, I asked the manager at the service department about replacing it and he suggested that I could but there was little need and if I did replace it, there would be no impact on my warranty. He even suggested that I go to a performance shop and get it from there.
I hope we manage to resolve the problem! If you find air in the fuel line and fix it and want to check the reported figures again let me know, I'm just up the road.
Beergutz
Member
Gents,
Further to our attempt to figure out whats causing these issues, I discussed with Old.Tony the intermittant humming noise that can be heard from around the rear passenger side wheel arch. Tony had commented that he believed it may have been a pressure release mechanism associated with the fuel tank. Our last idea before heading home was to crack the fuel cap and leave it sitting loosely. On my way home at my first available opportunity sitting on 80k's an hour i gave the accelerator a work out and low and behold it did NOT enter limp mode.... a good start but as i had only 3k to home i only tried it the once.
Today after driving around all day on the freeway and main highway and stomping on the accelerator at every oportunity to try and fault it just kept on going without any problems!!! I was amazed but sceptical. I called a Deisel specialist who ive worked in with in my line of work and ran the scenario by him. He stated that if the pressure valve in the fuel cap isn't operational it can create a vacuum in the fuel tank and fuel lines and can compromise the suction control valve delivering fuel. ( im no mechanic but i think that is what he stated). My Navara would stall after each limp mode which seems to point to lack of fuel after the fault. I spoke with Old.Tony this afternoon and he may be able to explain this a little clearer than i can.
So i am going to fill the tank back and seal the fuel cap again and see if i can get to fault. If it does then i will leave it loose again and see what happens from there. Will keep everyone in the loop on the results. Now im not the first bloke that this has happend to and wont be the last but maybe crack your fuel cap and see if it makes a difference. I am dumfounded that at this stage that it could be something so simple and inexpensive to rectify.
I guess time will tell.
Further to our attempt to figure out whats causing these issues, I discussed with Old.Tony the intermittant humming noise that can be heard from around the rear passenger side wheel arch. Tony had commented that he believed it may have been a pressure release mechanism associated with the fuel tank. Our last idea before heading home was to crack the fuel cap and leave it sitting loosely. On my way home at my first available opportunity sitting on 80k's an hour i gave the accelerator a work out and low and behold it did NOT enter limp mode.... a good start but as i had only 3k to home i only tried it the once.
Today after driving around all day on the freeway and main highway and stomping on the accelerator at every oportunity to try and fault it just kept on going without any problems!!! I was amazed but sceptical. I called a Deisel specialist who ive worked in with in my line of work and ran the scenario by him. He stated that if the pressure valve in the fuel cap isn't operational it can create a vacuum in the fuel tank and fuel lines and can compromise the suction control valve delivering fuel. ( im no mechanic but i think that is what he stated). My Navara would stall after each limp mode which seems to point to lack of fuel after the fault. I spoke with Old.Tony this afternoon and he may be able to explain this a little clearer than i can.
So i am going to fill the tank back and seal the fuel cap again and see if i can get to fault. If it does then i will leave it loose again and see what happens from there. Will keep everyone in the loop on the results. Now im not the first bloke that this has happend to and wont be the last but maybe crack your fuel cap and see if it makes a difference. I am dumfounded that at this stage that it could be something so simple and inexpensive to rectify.
I guess time will tell.
D
Dave
Guest
Good result.
He is a smart cookie Tony.
He'll keep going until he figures it out.
He is a smart cookie Tony.
He'll keep going until he figures it out.
timmy_larco
Member
- Joined
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Hey guys i have had some progress with Nissan Australia. I think im starting to get somewhere. Ill fill you all in soon, when i know more. Thanks again.
ok guys hope i can help....
i have had this same problem with my 07 man d40 stx and to a stage i could get it to start stalling/ going into limp mode on command.
after logging all the stalling/limp modes the one thing that was noticed was the fuel pump (ma) on the log... on calling an ex nissan manager he said it was the fuel pressure solinoid on the back of the fuel pump itself...
i was finding it would start up and go to its 1700~mA and the time when it would go into stalling would be start up and it would fall to a value of 1300mA and die straight away.
i got nissan to buy in the part... $250 inc gst trade price. fitting is with allen key in a bitch of a position and it has 2 new bolts/oring/gasket all brand new in the box...
after fitting the fuel voltage is perrrrrrrfect starts and 1650mA- 1720mA and cannot get it to stall or go into limp mode....
hope all is well... welcome to email me re any qns or pm me
[email protected]
i have had this same problem with my 07 man d40 stx and to a stage i could get it to start stalling/ going into limp mode on command.
after logging all the stalling/limp modes the one thing that was noticed was the fuel pump (ma) on the log... on calling an ex nissan manager he said it was the fuel pressure solinoid on the back of the fuel pump itself...
i was finding it would start up and go to its 1700~mA and the time when it would go into stalling would be start up and it would fall to a value of 1300mA and die straight away.
i got nissan to buy in the part... $250 inc gst trade price. fitting is with allen key in a bitch of a position and it has 2 new bolts/oring/gasket all brand new in the box...
after fitting the fuel voltage is perrrrrrrfect starts and 1650mA- 1720mA and cannot get it to stall or go into limp mode....
hope all is well... welcome to email me re any qns or pm me
[email protected]
D
Dave
Guest
^ Good info.
Beergutz
Member
Ovaxited,
Thanks for the info. Have a few questions for you!
When you could get you Nav into limp mode was it under heavy acceleration? or was you Nav stalling at start up and then going into limp mode? Mine was at a point where i could get it to enter into limp mode by stomping on the accelerator as per the video i posted. Ever since i unscrewed the fuel cap it hasnt entered into limp mode after many attempts. I have since filled the tank and re-tightend the fuel cap but hasnt faulted since. Im waiting for it to happen again to a point where i can do it on command and then release fuel cap to see what happens.
Do you have a part number for the solenoid??? Thanks for you input mate.
Thanks for the info. Have a few questions for you!
When you could get you Nav into limp mode was it under heavy acceleration? or was you Nav stalling at start up and then going into limp mode? Mine was at a point where i could get it to enter into limp mode by stomping on the accelerator as per the video i posted. Ever since i unscrewed the fuel cap it hasnt entered into limp mode after many attempts. I have since filled the tank and re-tightend the fuel cap but hasnt faulted since. Im waiting for it to happen again to a point where i can do it on command and then release fuel cap to see what happens.
Do you have a part number for the solenoid??? Thanks for you input mate.
i could get it to enter limp mode on startup and on heavy acceleration on command....
i will try get the part number but im lead to believe there is 2 types depending on your model , one is shorter- one longer as im told....
your better to give your vin number and get the one thats suited to you.... imo 250 is worth a crack...
i will try get the part number but im lead to believe there is 2 types depending on your model , one is shorter- one longer as im told....
your better to give your vin number and get the one thats suited to you.... imo 250 is worth a crack...
ovaxitd,
was your's the short or the longer one?
Could you post up the part number regardless of whether it's the shorter or longer one please?
I accidentally bought a SCV for the xtrail 2.2L diesel instead. If anyone wants it, let me know. I doubt i will have much luck returning it even though its still wrapped up and all.
lack of sleep is getting me confused between the cars in the yard
was your's the short or the longer one?
Could you post up the part number regardless of whether it's the shorter or longer one please?
I accidentally bought a SCV for the xtrail 2.2L diesel instead. If anyone wants it, let me know. I doubt i will have much luck returning it even though its still wrapped up and all.
lack of sleep is getting me confused between the cars in the yard
im currently away atm and prob be home in a week of so.... will post up when i have receipt in my hand.... it is the only solinoid on the rear of the fuel pump on drivers side of the engine... nissan are ok with returns so long as you havnt opened it...
15% restocking fee later and yep, they happily accepted the return as it was unopened except for the tape on the cardboard box.
A6860-AW42B is the LONGER one for the YD22 xtrail motor or some YD25 motors (depends on the Denso pump model number). Im sure they can get the right one for you if you give your VIN. But their parts diagram is very vague - the 2D outline of the SCV looks nothing like the real thing so it's not something to rely on. This unit has made in Japan on the label.
A6860-EC09A is the SHORTER one for the YD25 motor. It also happens to be the same one for the 2.5L triton motor and a few other cars too. (Denso part number 294009-0260). This kit has made in Holland on the label.
To be honest, i bought the Nissan kit for a Mazda 3 diesel. Mazda wouldnt sell me a SCV, they told me they dont sell parts for the pumps.
One Nissan dealer wouldnt sell me the kit either - "you buy the valve and get a free pump with it.." $2k ish. Im sure if i found the Mazda kit number earlier it would be a different story.
Thankyou google
Hope the part numbers help someone someday!
A6860-AW42B is the LONGER one for the YD22 xtrail motor or some YD25 motors (depends on the Denso pump model number). Im sure they can get the right one for you if you give your VIN. But their parts diagram is very vague - the 2D outline of the SCV looks nothing like the real thing so it's not something to rely on. This unit has made in Japan on the label.
A6860-EC09A is the SHORTER one for the YD25 motor. It also happens to be the same one for the 2.5L triton motor and a few other cars too. (Denso part number 294009-0260). This kit has made in Holland on the label.
To be honest, i bought the Nissan kit for a Mazda 3 diesel. Mazda wouldnt sell me a SCV, they told me they dont sell parts for the pumps.
One Nissan dealer wouldnt sell me the kit either - "you buy the valve and get a free pump with it.." $2k ish. Im sure if i found the Mazda kit number earlier it would be a different story.
Thankyou google
Hope the part numbers help someone someday!
Beergutz
Member
Just an update with my issue. It hasnt entered limp mode since Old.Tony and i monitored it entering limp mode with the bluetooth dongle and then leaving the fuel cap loose. Have put 3 or 4 tanks through with the cap on tight. Im still waiting to have it fault on demand to loosen the fuel cap and see if it clears striaght away. Am keeping the solenoid in the back of my mind but waiting to see what the outcome is with loosening the cap first.
CHUUBZ
Member
I just purchased a 2007 D40 Navara and noticed my car does it under loss of traction of heavy acceleration (2.5l turbo diesel). Beergutz mine sounds like yours, when I had a FULL tank in it was doing it constantly, now its dropped below 35% and its fine. Instead of screwing and unscrewing the petrol cap, could you maybe drill a 8mm hole or something in the cap itself?
timmy_larco
Member
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Hey guys,
So im glad to finally give you some good news. After writing a letter to nissan australia themselves i finally started to get somewhere. I sent the letter off probably 5 weeks ago now and heard back from nissan about 2 weeks after. They have pretty much admitted that they can not find the problem and are going to replace my Navara with a brand new one. I originally owned a black one, and due to the popularity of that colour it was not available till December this year. I have already been driving the hire car for over 10 weeks and Im pretty sick of it. So I have gone with silver. I got a call today to say it had arrived at the dealership and well be getting the accessories put on this week. Should be ready friday. YAY!
So im glad to finally give you some good news. After writing a letter to nissan australia themselves i finally started to get somewhere. I sent the letter off probably 5 weeks ago now and heard back from nissan about 2 weeks after. They have pretty much admitted that they can not find the problem and are going to replace my Navara with a brand new one. I originally owned a black one, and due to the popularity of that colour it was not available till December this year. I have already been driving the hire car for over 10 weeks and Im pretty sick of it. So I have gone with silver. I got a call today to say it had arrived at the dealership and well be getting the accessories put on this week. Should be ready friday. YAY!
Biscuits
Ginger Ninja.
There is a thread on here about having a win against nissan. Think that little gem should go in there also.
Well played and hope the new ride goes well or at least better.
Well played and hope the new ride goes well or at least better.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
That's a good outcome, good to see Nissan have come up trumps in this case.
I'd have hated to give my ute back anytime after the first week of owning it, I'd done too much crap to it that I'd never trust Nissan to replace.
I'd have hated to give my ute back anytime after the first week of owning it, I'd done too much crap to it that I'd never trust Nissan to replace.
Had the same problem with our 2007 Spain, still under warranty (just!!!).
The local dealer replaced everything from the "injector pump" (as they insisted calling it) i.e. fuel pressure pump to the back of the injectors. No proper explaination ever was given. Fortunatley Nissan picked up the bill.
d22dave
Member
Thats good for you, A mate of mine got Ballarat holden to buy his commodore wagon back off him, As he was having problem after problem on a 2 year year old car that he has had since new. Anyway he gave it back mid week and it was for sale on the saturday as is as traded. So anyone in the market for a black nav might want to be carefull about buying a bargain
