Welding the front diff up as a fully locked diff in 4wd!

[davojohnson]

Hey everyone, just curious as to if it would be worth it to weld up the front diff so it's a fully locked diff every time I lock the hubs in and out it in 4wd? If it's worth doing that are there any things I need to be aware of that may happen? Cause I've been told I have a much higher chance of breaking CV's a lot easier by a mate! Only would be used off-road and want to find cheap alternatives to that still work as well if better then what everyone else would be doing since I have no job and want to try and maximise how far I can go off road without having to spend to much or any money at all!!
All input is welcome

Cheers

 

[ShortyNavros]

Buy an auto-locker. Welding the diff is good, as long as you only drive in straight lines when you are in 4wd offroad, ie Never. With an auto locker the mechanism locks your diff but when turning corners it can ratchet and allow the wheel turning fastest to differentiate and spin faster than the inside wheel spinning slower. With a welded diff both wheels spin at the same speed, making turning very difficult.

Auto lockers can be had for about $500 from 4wdsystems http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/ and can be installed DIY (if you were thinking about welding the diff you can put a lokka in).

This is a far better option than welding internal diff components and putting heaps of stress on the drive line.

 

[davojohnson]

Buy an auto-locker. Welding the diff is good, as long as you only drive in straight lines when you are in 4wd offroad, ie Never. With an auto locker the mechanism locks your diff but when turning corners it can ratchet and allow the wheel turning fastest to differentiate and spin faster than the inside wheel spinning slower. With a welded diff both wheels spin at the same speed, making turning very difficult.

Auto lockers can be had for about $500 from 4wdsystems http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/ and can be installed DIY (if you were thinking about welding the diff you can put a lokka in).

This is a far better option than welding internal diff components and putting heaps of stress on the drive line.

Yeah thanks for that info, I'll look at getting an auto locker once I get a job but the thing is which would be the most effective ans make the diff the strongest out of those two and the ARB air locker?? That's my next question!!

 

[davojohnson]

Buy an auto-locker. Welding the diff is good, as long as you only drive in straight lines when you are in 4wd offroad, ie Never. With an auto locker the mechanism locks your diff but when turning corners it can ratchet and allow the wheel turning fastest to differentiate and spin faster than the inside wheel spinning slower. With a welded diff both wheels spin at the same speed, making turning very difficult.

Auto lockers can be had for about $500 from 4wdsystems http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/ and can be installed DIY (if you were thinking about welding the diff you can put a lokka in).

This is a far better option than welding internal diff components and putting heaps of stress on the drive line.

Also is the auto locker basically similar to an LSD diff? I know a little bit about this area but I've only ever thought of the ARB locker but never really looked into any of the other types of lockers.

Cheers

 

[ShortyNavros]

ARB air lockers use pneumatic force to push lock pins into the cams to lock the diff, having an air locker on is what i believe virtually the same as welding a diff, yeah you get drive to both wheels all the time but they cannot differentiate and your steering becomes super heavy making cornering difficult, so hence yeah it is is good but only for straight lines.

Air lockers are also significantly more expensive, in cost and more labour intensive to install as you have to install a compressor with a tank and air lines to drive the locker, this also means there are more things which can fail (all the air line you use will deteriorate eventually).

If I was choosing and had heaps of money I would buy an E locker as these are about 1500-2000 installed but I didnt have that sort of cash so went an auto lokka as it was the best value for money traction device for my needs.

Auto lockers are not like LSDs, LSDs are open diffs with shimming to slow down one side if it differentiating faster than the other side, so it helps where one wheel has good traction but the other has little traction, however if either wheel has no traction then an LSD will likely do bugger all, whereas an auto/mechanical locker will give power to both wheels 100% of the time regardless of whether they have traction or not.

 

[davojohnson]

ARB air lockers use pneumatic force to push lock pins into the cams to lock the diff, having an air locker on is what i believe virtually the same as welding a diff, yeah you get drive to both wheels all the time but they cannot differentiate and your steering becomes super heavy making cornering difficult, so hence yeah it is is good but only for straight lines.

Air lockers are also significantly more expensive, in cost and more labour intensive to install as you have to install a compressor with a tank and air lines to drive the locker, this also means there are more things which can fail (all the air line you use will deteriorate eventually).

If I was choosing and had heaps of money I would buy an E locker as these are about 1500-2000 installed but I didnt have that sort of cash so went an auto lokka as it was the best value for money traction device for my needs.

Auto lockers are not like LSDs, LSDs are open diffs with shimming to slow down one side if it differentiating faster than the other side, so it helps where one wheel has good traction but the other has little traction, however if either wheel has no traction then an LSD will likely do bugger all, whereas an auto/mechanical locker will give power to both wheels 100% of the time regardless of whether they have traction or not.

Rightio thanks for that, I'll keep that in mind!

 

[75 GRC]

Hi mate,
I highly recommend not welding your front differential,

You would be much better getting a LOKKA From four-wheel-drive systems.

If you weld the front diff together as ONE he will create all sorts of problems for yourself..

You will possibly break your CV's every time you go out and lock the hubs.

That is not my Theory that is fact.


You have two options either a E-Locker (Harrop)

Or a LOKKA from (four-wheel-drive systems).

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Could it be any worse than an air-locker?

 

[bods]

Haha the good old "cig" locker.

No worse than having an air or e locker. Apart from not having an "off" switch.... if you don't need hard core 4x4, just lock 1 hub and leave the other unlocked. Makes turning easier and if you really need to you can just lock the other one when the going gets tough.

Been done plenty of times before. I believe there are also a few places starting to do stronger cv's now, so that may be an option to go with it if you have any breakages.

 

[davojohnson]

Hi mate,
I highly recommend not welding your front differential,

You would be much better getting a LOKKA From four-wheel-drive systems.

If you weld the front diff together as ONE he will create all sorts of problems for yourself..

You will possibly break your CV's every time you go out and lock the hubs.

That is not my Theory that is fact.


You have two options either a E-Locker (Harrop)

Or a LOKKA from (four-wheel-drive systems).

Hey. Mate,

Yeah I've heard some things about welding diffs as a fully locked axle but never really looked into doing it because I never thought it would come to that or be needed! Only reason being of why o want to do it is because I currently have no job and being an ifs front end the suspension has dropped ans I think it's got a lot to do with the shit shocks in the front end but the mate who mentioned breaking CV's said it's also a massive job and a lot is involved so I might as well just leave it for now till I get a job cause I can't afford any of those other external component mods to the front diff until long after I get a job as I've got a fair bit of work/repairs needing to be done to the old girl but I'll keep that in mind and thanks for your input!

Cheers

 

[davojohnson]

Haha the good old "cig" locker.

No worse than having an air or e locker. Apart from not having an "off" switch.... if you don't need hard core 4x4, just lock 1 hub and leave the other unlocked. Makes turning easier and if you really need to you can just lock the other one when the going gets tough.

Been done plenty of times before. I believe there are also a few places starting to do stronger cv's now, so that may be an option to go with it if you have any breakages.

Haha yeah highly effective and cheap way to make your truck an actual proper 4wd ans yeah i completely forgot about the single hub being locked in so if I was to weld the diff that's all I'd have to do to make it work the way it originally was before I welded the diff! So yeah as you said its basically an air locker without an off switch haha so if I do end up welding the front diff I'd only lock the one side in unless I'm going through a deep mud hole which there a a couple around where I go so that's why I asked this question cause I don't have a snorkel and won't be able to get one until I get a job and having to fly into the mud hole makes the water come up a lot higher so if I was able to have the extra wheel turning at the front I reckon that's all I'd need to keep me moving at a much slower speed!!

Yeah that's what I was planning on doing if I was to weld it!

Eventually I'll try and get some strengthened chromoly CV's for it which I've heard make a massive difference to strength but really hurt the wallet but it's worth it if you've got big lift, tyres and that sort of thing!

Thanks for your input mate and I'll have to have a good think about what I'm going to do!!

Cheers

 

[seventies47]

Dont weld it, you will instantly regret it and its quite hard to un-weld a differential..

 

[davojohnson]

Dont weld it, you will instantly regret it and its quite hard to un-weld a differential..

Ok thanks for that info mate, what sort of diff swaps can you do to these Navaras that are a bigger and stronger diff then the factory ones?

 

[75 GRC]

Dont weld it, you will instantly regret it and its quite hard to un-weld a differential..

100% agree...

 

[bods]

Ok thanks for that info mate, what sort of diff swaps can you do to these Navaras that are a bigger and stronger diff then the factory ones?

You can swap an r200 from a v6 petrol model in, you just have to make sure the ratio matches the rear diff.

Either that or sas it...

 

[davojohnson]

You can swap an r200 from a v6 petrol model in, you just have to make sure the ratio matches the rear diff.

Either that or sas it...

Yeah I'm considering sas it but it would have to be a full custom setup wouldn't including the axle because there's nothing that would fit into a navara front end is there?

 

[bods]

Dilmah is has done his. He is working on a rear 4 link at the moment too. He used a patrol diff. I believe he cut the ends off and flipped it to get the pumpkin on the correct side. He has a full build thread about how he did it though.


Here you go http://www.navara.asia/showthread.php?t=26950

 

[scottybobcat]

You could also do a GQ chassis swap if you want SAS, coils and 4 wheel disc break.

 

[davojohnson]

You could also do a GQ chassis swap if you want SAS, coils and 4 wheel disc break.

If I was to do this would I be able to chuck a V8 in it being the same chassis as what the normal GQ would have just different body? Cause if I could I'd actually be seriously considering doing that over the standard SAS swap!

 

[Jased22]

If I was to do this would I be able to chuck a V8 in it being the same chassis as what the normal GQ would have just different body? Cause if I could I'd actually be seriously considering doing that over the standard SAS swap!

Yeah thats what scotty is running