Should smokers pay for everyones hospital's ?

[Nevyn]

It's just more bullshit from the biggest smug lying bastard prime minister we've ever had.
To all the self righteous people who've never smoked and still fail to realise it's a F**$#ng addiction bully to you I'm sure you are without fault in all you do!!. To all you ex smokers well done, but don't crucify the people who smoke because you still feel like one! Me I quit because I wanted to, not because someone else thought I should or forced me to.

Nick, what can I say?

As a non-smoker I am all for an increase in the price of cigarettes, as far as I am concerned they should double in price. Especially as the health care system is in so much trouble atm. An increase in the price of tobacco has the two fold effect of providing more money to health care system and more importantly reducing the number of people that smoke.

Raising the price can only achieve one of these points not both!
Too all the diesel drivers out there do you realise that diesel exhaust particles are carcinogens, they'd better double tax us hey??

Me I'll most likely never vote Labor again. For the first time in 20 years of voting I diddn't vote for the lying scum last election!
Shoot me!
Cheers Brad

 

[Nevyn]

do-gooder

• noun a well-meaning but unrealistic or interfering person.

 

[Deejay]

Hi Guys,

As an ex smoker of 20 years, haven't had one in 6 years and can't stand em nowadays. I think they should be taxed further. I was paying $10.30 6 years ago and $1.21 when I first started.

When indexed against wages, they have always been around 1% of your wage per pack. Whack the price up. If you keep smoking, you'll contribute to some of the cost of smoking on the health system, a good thing! if you give up, you'll ease the cost of the health care by making yourself healthier, a good thing. Way I see it, it's a win/win for the health system.

Yes, should tax fast food too. It sux that healthy food is so expensive and fast junk food is so cheap by comparison.

My 2 cents worth, keep the change.

DJ

 

[felixblack]

Another Ex-smoker here. I just used to smoke rollies. Lots cheaper

I'm in 2 minds about the tax. Means someone elses is paying extra tax so I don't need too and smokers do cost the public health system a lot. But the public's majority support to raise the taxes is not a good thing. Also while it is somewhat of a good thing that smoking is banned in public places again the public are too complacent about giving up there freedom. Just more control which is not what Australia needs more of.

Dave, I think you'll find the last cigerrete a$$ r@ping tax was carried out by the Howard Government. Voting out the current chump in favour of the catholic chump will prob end in the banning of condoms lol Until Australian's see that both parties carry out the same BS we will continue to have our freedom eaten away. Slowly but surely

 

[KraftyPg]

Everyone should just stop buying tailor mades and the government will get no tax dollars (until they figure out how to tax the black market stuff) and then to make up the millions of dollars in shortfall that smoking already creates we will all be slugged taxes on everything else we buy, it's a simple solution.

 

[reel-sensation]

My New Truck

I bought a new Nissan Navara and returned to the dealer yesterday
because I couldn't get the radio to work.

The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated.

' Nelson ,' the salesman said to the radio.
The radio replied, 'Ricky or Willie?'

'Willie!' he continued and 'On The Road Again' came from the speakers.
Then he said, 'Ray Charles!', and in an instant ' Georgia On
My Mind' replaced Willie Nelson .

I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say,
'Beethoven,' I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said,
'Beatles,' I'd get one of their songs.

Yesterday, some guy ran a red light and nearly creamed me, but I swerved in time to avoid them. I yelled, 'Arsehole!'

Immediately the radio responded with a speech by Kevin Rudd
Gee I LOVE this truck

 

[kitch76]

If the government wants money they need to pay the right prce for things that are done, eg the Glasshouse Visitor information centre (V.I.C) was a $950,000 project but the way I see it is the land was given to them buy one of the original land owners in the area for a park and V.I.C now the building is smaller than my house and my house was under $200K to build so tell me where the other $750K went??? another project I saw in brissy was a cycle/pedestrian over pass over the western freeway and it showed a project cost of 9.9 million for the life of me I cant see where the $$$$ went.

But as far as colecting taxes to pay for what ever they need the money for lets make it fair lets tax grog, ciggys, fast food, make it more expensive for P plate drivers who are dangerous , and the list will keep going and going, I feel they just need to learn to spend money not waste it and we would have a hell of a lot more to go around. maybe some of these pollies need a paycut from their rediculously high wages for what they do. until they can prove their existance and are actually worth the big $$$$

 

[WIR35]

We live in an increasingly "user pays" world. If you want to drive on toll roads, you pay for it. If you choose to smoke and increase your risk of chronic disease and clog up our health systems, then you should pay for it too. I don't smoke, I eat healthy food, I spend about $5000 a year on sporting fees and gym memberships to keep myself fit and healthy, I'll be stuffed if I'm going to be happy to pay around $2000 in medicare levies for people who are overweight and people who smoke, and people who don't make any effort to care for their health to have free or cheap healthcare. If you're smoker or an unhealthy or overweight person who thinks everyone else should pay for your healthcare, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!! Not much gets me angry, but this does.

In case I haven't made my point clear enough, let's get this straight. To begin smoking, you KNOW that it's addictive and you KNOW that it will probably give you serious illness and/or kill you. And yet you chose to do it anyway. And you think non-smokers should foot the bill for a minority's habit. What a joke!

Obviously there are going to be people who don't have good health and it's through no fault of their own, I am happy for my taxes to help these people, but I will never support people who willingly choose to degrade their health and then expect everyone else to pay for it, it's like the typical "victim" mentality. Someone said "it's not only smokers that get cancer", I find that incredibly offensive to even try to compare those poor unfortunate people who have non smoking related cancer, and those who WILLINGLY smoke, KNOWING that it will massively increase their own risk of getting cancer. If you want to smoke and/or eat junk food and sit around on your arse all day, then in my view you have two choices, you can pay extra taxes now, or when you're admitted to hospital with chronic disease or heart attack, then you can wait out the front of the hospital until you can front up with the cash. Take your pick.

 

[KraftyPg]

If you want to smoke and/or eat junk food and sit around on your arse all day, then in my view you have two choices, you can pay extra taxes now, or when you're admitted to hospital with chronic disease or heart attack, then you can wait out the front of the hospital until you can front up with the cash. Take your pick.

Hey I like that idea, no health care unless you front up at the hospital with the reddies to pay the bill, that will fix those buggers who let themselves get sick.

WIR35 is right everything else is a user pays system, if you want to use a toll road you pay a fee that is related to your vehicle, motorbikes are cheaper than trucks and it's not just because trucks are bigger. You take up two parks in a paid carpark, you should pay for the privilege of using two spots, not just one because you are only one vehicle. You own two blocks of land together and take the fence down you still have to pay two lots of rates despite being able to get the deed changed to read as one block. If you knowing put yourself in a higher risk category for your health than other people (when there is a choice), no matter what the reason why shouldn't you pay a premium.

I still pay more for my health insurance because of being an ex-smoker than someone of the same age who was a non smoker, it's life, I accept that for taking up the smokes in the first place, why should a public funded system be any different.

 

[Nick_T]

So Nick your saying only smokers can get cancer ?

So all the smokers out there should pay for all the obese people out there aswell.

Tax the junk food, obesity is now the no 1 killer in this country.

Dave.

Dave - i agree. i am all for increaseing the price of junk food, which I did say. If you go out and start an adictive habbit that you know is bad for you, you can not complain when the government up's the price to help cover the hospital bills you generate.

and Nevyn, raising the price will achieve more money to the health care system, as theat's what Rudd has promised that money is going towards (unless he is lying to us again). As for the reduction in the number of smokers, its proven that the higher a pack of smokes cost the fewer people smoke. It is estimated that there are around 3 million smokers in Australia atm, once the price rise is completed this will drop to 2 million.

For the record I cant stand Rudd he is a worm as far as im concerned and will never vote for him.

 

[Krankin]

We live in an increasingly "user pays" world. If you want to drive on toll roads, you pay for it. If you choose to smoke and increase your risk of chronic disease and clog up our health systems, then you should pay for it too. I don't smoke, I eat healthy food, I spend about $5000 a year on sporting fees and gym memberships to keep myself fit and healthy, I'll be stuffed if I'm going to be happy to pay around $2000 in medicare levies for people who are overweight and people who smoke, and people who don't make any effort to care for their health to have free or cheap healthcare. If you're smoker or an unhealthy or overweight person who thinks everyone else should pay for your healthcare, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!! Not much gets me angry, but this does.

In case I haven't made my point clear enough, let's get this straight. To begin smoking, you KNOW that it's addictive and you KNOW that it will probably give you serious illness and/or kill you. And yet you chose to do it anyway. And you think non-smokers should foot the bill for a minority's habit. What a joke!

Obviously there are going to be people who don't have good health and it's through no fault of their own, I am happy for my taxes to help these people, but I will never support people who willingly choose to degrade their health and then expect everyone else to pay for it, it's like the typical "victim" mentality. Someone said "it's not only smokers that get cancer", I find that incredibly offensive to even try to compare those poor unfortunate people who have non smoking related cancer, and those who WILLINGLY smoke, KNOWING that it will massively increase their own risk of getting cancer. If you want to smoke and/or eat junk food and sit around on your arse all day, then in my view you have two choices, you can pay extra taxes now, or when you're admitted to hospital with chronic disease or heart attack, then you can wait out the front of the hospital until you can front up with the cash. Take your pick.

Do you KNOWINGLY,
live in the same world we do,
drink alcohol,
breath the air we all do,
breath in the same exhaust fumes we all do,
eat the pesticide sprayed fruit and vegies we all do,
eat hormone/chemically enhanced chickens we all do,
eat chemically enhanced meat we all do,
drink the same water we all do,
eat the same toxin accumulated fish we all do,
work in industrial enviroments,
work in an office,
take medicines,
walk out the front door,
cross the street,
drive a vehicle
etc,etc,etc.

Or do you live in a bubble?

 

[WIR35]

Yes, I do a lot of those things and for that I pay health insurance comparable to the relatively low risk that I pose to the insurance company. I am quite happy to pay this. I am NOT happy to pay thousands of dollars in medicare levies for all of the slat lazy slobs, smokers and alcoholics who CHOOSE to damage their health. Krankin, mate I think you're the one in the bubble about this issue.

Look at the research and the facts. The large majority of all people who have chronic disease are smokers, alcoholic or obese people, or quite often a combination of all of those. It is rarely people who are fit, active and have a healthy diet who don't smoke or consume alcohol to excess. This is indisputable fact.

My informed and rational opinion stands. Period.

 

[Krankin]

No, i live in the real world mate.

Do you really believe that the extra tax collected will all go to health, baa

Does all the millions of dollars made via speed cams and the like go to roads as the gov claims, baa
etc, etc



A few here claim they wont vote for the 'lying' Rudd next time, what and all the others are honest joe's...wakeup.

Should I be happy that some of these taxes will go to single mothers who have five kids to five different fathers?

Got to look at the big picture.

Its quite easy to sit at the desk and uninformdably point the finger and put people in a corner.

should we also shoot all the people living in 3rd world countries dying of disease,poverty and starvation because they knowingly know their situation but still breed.

Smoking is legal and you've no idea what insurance's i pay or not.

I'm not the one in the bubble.

 

[Matt76]

Play nice guys, lets not make it personal.

 

[Krankin]

And,

Why is it, tell me,
ok to let the ciggy manufacturers get away scot free with "knowingly" producing a product that addicts its users and can kill them. (fact)

I wonder..

Remember back a little while when it was found that some toys made in china were found to have lead paint.
They were taken off the shelves immediately.

But its ok for Phillip Morris to kill its patrons.

Maybe they should be footing the health bills.

 

[Krankin]

Play nice guys, lets not make it personal.

Its ok mate, i dont hold grudges.
an agument today is not one tommorow.

but theres always a first time

 

[WIR35]

What the government do with our money is another discussion for another day, and on that, I'm sure you and I would agree 100%, they are bloody hopeless. I won't vote for Rudd either. I never have voted for Labor, and unless they change their game a lot, I never will. But realistically I don't think it matters what government is in, the shame shit will still happen, maybe to varying degrees.

The pressing issue here is that should people who don't look after their health be made to pay for their own related subsequent healthcare? Abso-bloody-lutely.

The title of this thread "should smokers pay for everyone's hospital" is slightly off target because the amount raised from cigarette tax doesn't even come close to paying for the cost that smoking places on society. However, everyone else has been paying for smoker's hospital for so long, why not turn the tables for a while? I know I've probably targetted smokers a lot, mainly due to the topic of the thread, but I must qualify that I think the blame should be evenly shared around to anyone who doesn't take care of their health. You've only got one body so look after it.

I'm with you that cigarette manufacturers should have responsbility too, and politicians of years gone by who have not done anything to try and stop smoking need their arses kicked as well.

 

[Krankin]

However, everyone else has been paying for smoker's hospital for so long, why not turn the tables for a while?

In that,
firstly look at the breakdown per pack of ciggies now.
What % is tax to the guv...without looking i think about 60 or so %,
and has been like that always

Dont you think that would cover smokers health bills...
only if that money was spent on that,
but were dealing with honest govs are'nt we.

 

[WIR35]

It would be reasonable to assume that, I'm not sure of the exact figures, but to answer your question, no it doesn't go close to paying for it.

My sister and her team have spent about the last 7 or so years researching chronic disease, it's causes, and it's impacts on the health system. Basically the problem is accelerating exponentially and our health system will fall in a heap in the short-medium term unless something drastic is done. The main causes are smoking, obesity, and alcoholism. Basically, if everyone had a healthy diet, exercised, didn't smoke, and drank only moderate amounts of alcohol, we would all pay less taxes and our health system would have the potential to be brilliant. (assuming our government did a decent job of it). All of these things you hear of, "fat taxes", and increased taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, are the only means the government will use because simply banning cigarettes or alcohol or junk food would mean they wouldn't get re-elected.

It's also interesting to note that the cost to the community of illegal drugs pales in comparison to that of legal drugs. Perhaps if they made some illegal drugs legal and taxed them, we would be in a better situation??? Instead of the drug lords getting all of the money, the government could get their share..... Just throwing that out there....

I hate defending governments, but basically no matter how much the government promises to fix our healthcare, our country can't afford to improve, or even maintain the current level of healthcare unless people start looking after themselves, or, those who chose to abuse their health pay higher taxes. It's an unfortunate truth, but that's the way it is.

 

[Krankin]

Yes, understanding your last post, on the flip side
Dont forget the subject heading.

now I'm just talking about smokers now, not obesity or other disorders.

Dont you think at say 1 pack per day, (cheap $10 pack) around $6 of that pack price goes to the gov per person smoking.

How many smoking, have to be a million at least,
so $6 million dollars per day(at present) $2.19 BILLION annually collected by the guv, is not enough to cover smokers health bills,
along with their own health cover.

and then the guv wants more to cover others health problems.
fair go.


While i am i no way saying that all these vices are good for health..
reason why i stopped smoking was part health and part agro towards the guv for taking their cut of my money,
much the same as the alcopop tax, which does nothing but is still collected.

In short, the undeniable FACT here is the gov is using smokers as a CASH COW nothing else.
And i personally dislike that.